Excellent point. Seemed pretty clear just from experience and memory.
Thanks, GWMayhem for actually doing the math. Whatever the exact percentage is, it proves
the point.

GWRising, I don't think it was suggested to be the standard (expectation) as it was to be the goal.  While what you wrote was true (though Lonergan's 2 NIT appearances should also be included since JF mentioned both the NCAA and the NIT) , what's also true is that Hobbs and Lonergan both brought abilities to lead this program into the postseason, something that we have not witnessed since.  In other words, along with Jarvis (sorry but I'm not counting Penders here despite his factually leading Jarvis's players to a Dance), loyal fans of this program have seen that competitively battling for real postseason basketball appearances (am looking at you CBI) can be done. 

I am assuming that you've followed the team on the road at NCAA and NIT games.  If so, you know how much fun that is.  While we are not entitled to make these tournaments annually, the reality is that we are going on 6 years of having that really fun experience taken away from us.  I used to make a joke when cable tv was in its infancy that cable was a lot like sex...once you've had it, it should never, ever be taken away from you.  Let's add road trips to GW postseason appearances to that group. 
cable tv was like sex...once you've had it 

GWRising wrote:

jf wrote:

Doesn't really matter where we finish as long as we get to the NCAAs or NIT with some regularity, as we
did under Jarvis, Hobbs and Lonergan.
   Barring a very miracle A-10 run to win the tournament, that is not going to happen this year.

Uh hello ...We've made the NCAA tournament exactly one time in the last 15 years under 4 different coaches. Are you sure you aren't on the wrong message board?.

And in the 15 years before that, we made the tourney 8 times. More than half. 

If you don’t believe we can ever get back to that level, you are not on the right message board.  Frankly, if you are really an insider, it’s kind of depressing to think that people close to the program would be so dismissive of our ability to compete for NCAA bids on a semi-regular basis. 

As far as I’m concerned, you can throw out the self-inflicted disaster of the last 6 years - because the entire point of I think all our fans is to get back to where we were before (at least that should be the goal of everyone involved in GW basketball).

And in the 24 years before the self-inflicted misery of the last 6 years, we managed to make 9 NCAA tourneys and 6 NITs.   

Thats 15 real postseason appearances in 24 years.  If you allow for the fact it’s harder now to make the NIT than it used to be (because it was cut to 32 teams with several taken by auto-bids), then I think a fair goal would be to average a NCAA or NIT berth every other year.

That is where we were before Patrick Nero, Tanya Vogel, and the administration tanked our program, and we ought to strive to get back there - and anyone who condescendingly uses snark to dismiss those who believe we should be able achieve that level ought to be nowhere near our basketball program.

And to be clear, I understand the line between making and missing the tourney can be luck (like in I think in 95 when we had two top 5 wins but missed the tourney because the committee chose that year and that year alone to reward no bad losses over huge wins, or in 2016 when we were easily good enough but had too many off-court distractions that worked against us, or in 07 when the A10 was having a down year and we won the tourney but otherwise prob wouldn’t have even made the NIT).   I don’t expect us to be in the tourney every year or even every other year.  I just think we ought to be able to get back to the point where are a top 100 team most years, and when things break right make the tourney and when things don’t, maybe we make the NiT or at least come close.

I mean we were at that point in 14, 15, 16 when we made the NCAAs, won a road game in the NIT over an ACC team, and then won the NIT.  3 postseasons in 3 years, and well on our way to being the kind of team that was consistently in the top 100, making the NCAA once or twice every 4 years, and making the NIt once or twice in the same span. 

So please don’t be so condescendingly dismissive of fans who have memories that go back longer than 6 years because this program was, and will again be, much better than the pathetically low standard GW Rising seems to aspire to while condescending to this who think we should be able to do better.

Last edited by Free Quebec (3/02/2022 2:37 am)

With UMASS firing their coach now (or announcing now that he’ll be gone at season’s end), that doesn’t bode well for their game against Fordham.

If Fordham beats UMASS tonight and us this weekend, they will finish 9-9. (Without a single win over a team with a winning record, like us)

If George Mason loses to Davidson and beats UMASS, they would finish 8-8. 

But because Fordham beat Mason H2H, Fordham would be the 7 seed and we would have to play Mason in the first round (unless the A10 does something screwy like consider 8-8 better than 9-9 because fewer losses).

We really need Fordham to take another L so we can play them next week instead of Mason.

Really well stated FQ.

GWRising, as painful as this will likely be for you to read, your stance reminds me of the foolishness that The Dude tries to peddle here.  I think you need to start giving credit here to most posters.  Most, I believe, are content with the way the conference season has gone.  Even if the result ends up being an 8-9 record and a #9 seed (and I am also not conceding Saturday's game, but we had best take care of business tonight).  Please notice I said content and not ecstatic.  This finish gives fans genuine hope for the future.  This conference season represented progress.  It has been hard to make that statement ever since we cut down the nets at MSG.

Nobody here was anticipating an NCAA or NIT appearance this season.  Based on this year, I would hope that GW could be in the running for a top 6 finish next season.  I'd say that's realistic.  Most here recognize that this program wasn't going to skyrocket from near the bottom of the conference to near the top in 1 or 2 seasons.  

Your stance seems to suggest that even the most modest improvement should be a cause for celebration.  Because one feels that it shouldn't doesn't mean that anyone has it out for the coach or for that matter, doesn't want the coach to wildly succeed.  

I'll also address FQ's question regarding statistical noise.  No, I think that competing in the A10 for a 7-9 seed is far more impressive than battling to stay out of the pillow fight.  As of today, we are 6-1 against teams who we are ahead of in the standings, with Duquesne and Fordham to go.  We were considered underdogs in that one loss so it's not like this can be considered a terrible loss.  What this says to me is that by no metric is GW one of the worst teams in the A10 this season, and this is a change from recent seasons.  We have done a good job of beating the teams we are superior to, and for the most part, have just not been good enough (or are perhaps too flawed) to successfully compete with those where we are inferior.  I think this illustrates in a very cut and dried way that this conference season has seen a distinct improvement over our recent past.

 

Mentzinger wrote:

Free Quebec wrote:

it’s kind of depressing to think that people close to the program would be so dismissive of our ability to compete for NCAA bids on a semi-regular basis.
That is where we were before Patrick Nero, Tanya Vogel, and the administration tanked our program, and we ought to strive to get back there - and anyone who condescendingly uses snark to dismiss those who believe we should be able achieve that level ought to be nowhere near our basketball program.
So please don’t be so condescendingly dismissive of fans who have memories that go back longer than 6 years because this program was, and will again be, much better than the pathetically low standard GW Rising seems to aspire to while condescending to this who think we should be able to do better.

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Absolutely.   I am getting a bit tired of being asked to lower my expectations or that things are on the rise.   I am a passionate fan because of a reasonable hope of success that Free and others have documented prior to the Nero/Vogel disasters.   This is why I support the team, not to financially help some teenagers attend one of the most expensive universities in the country, especially when an equal if not superior education is available to them at a much lower costs in a public university.  Frankly, I find charities such as "Make a Wish" or the Humane Society far better causes to donate to than George Washington University Inc.  Yes, finishing 500 in the conference and getting a 7 seed in the conference tourney may be nice, but we need realistic expectations to reach a higher level, specifically top 100 and semi-regular post season appearances.   Hearing that we are moving in the right direction and we should wait until next season, followed by the myriad of excuses (too many transfers out, injuries, Covid, new players learing  to play together...the list goes on and on) when next season falls flat yet again is tiring, as is watching us play meaningless games in a near empty arena with no real crowd enthusiasm.   In my 50 plus years of following the team, I would always get depressed at the end of the season, as the 8 months to the start of the next season always seemed like an eternity.  I would count down the days...Memorial Day we are a quarter of the way to the next season, followed by the 4th of July putting us half way there and Labor Day 3/4 of the way.   I appreciated college football and the NFL not because I love football (I don't), but it meant that college basketball was right around the corner.   I enjoyed nothing more in life (outside of family...sometimes) ) than being at the Smith Center attending the games.  Now this season, for the first time, I actually missed  home games, not because I couldn't go but I just did not feel like going, finding watching on TV more entertaining.  Let me end this rant by again giving a big F*CK YOU to Nero, for taking a viable, solid program and flushing it down the toilet.   Raise (not so) High!

Last edited by Long Suffering Fan (3/02/2022 9:57 am)

Mentzinger wrote:

Free Quebec wrote:

it’s kind of depressing to think that people close to the program would be so dismissive of our ability to compete for NCAA bids on a semi-regular basis.
That is where we were before Patrick Nero, Tanya Vogel, and the administration tanked our program, and we ought to strive to get back there - and anyone who condescendingly uses snark to dismiss those who believe we should be able achieve that level ought to be nowhere near our basketball program.
So please don’t be so condescendingly dismissive of fans who have memories that go back longer than 6 years because this program was, and will again be, much better than the pathetically low standard GW Rising seems to aspire to while condescending to this who think we should be able to do better.

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I agree with FQ 100%

 

Free Quebec wrote:

GWRising wrote:

jf wrote:

Doesn't really matter where we finish as long as we get to the NCAAs or NIT with some regularity, as we
did under Jarvis, Hobbs and Lonergan.
   Barring a very miracle A-10 run to win the tournament, that is not going to happen this year.

Uh hello ...We've made the NCAA tournament exactly one time in the last 15 years under 4 different coaches. Are you sure you aren't on the wrong message board?.

And in the 15 years before that, we made the tourney 8 times. More than half.

If you don’t believe we can ever get back to that level, you are not on the right message board. Frankly, if you are really an insider, it’s kind of depressing to think that people close to the program would be so dismissive of our ability to compete for NCAA bids on a semi-regular basis.

As far as I’m concerned, you can throw out the self-inflicted disaster of the last 6 years - because the entire point of I think all our fans is to get back to where we were before (at least that should be the goal of everyone involved in GW basketball).

And in the 24 years before the self-inflicted misery of the last 6 years, we managed to make 9 NCAA tourneys and 6 NITs.

Thats 15 real postseason appearances in 24 years. If you allow for the fact it’s harder now to make the NIT than it used to be (because it was cut to 32 teams with several taken by auto-bids), then I think a fair goal would be to average a NCAA or NIT berth every other year.

That is where we were before Patrick Nero, Tanya Vogel, and the administration tanked our program, and we ought to strive to get back there - and anyone who condescendingly uses snark to dismiss those who believe we should be able achieve that level ought to be nowhere near our basketball program.

And to be clear, I understand the line between making and missing the tourney can be luck (like in I think in 95 when we had two top 5 wins but missed the tourney because the committee chose that year and that year alone to reward no bad losses over huge wins, or in 2016 when we were easily good enough but had too many off-court distractions that worked against us, or in 07 when the A10 was having a down year and we won the tourney but otherwise prob wouldn’t have even made the NIT). I don’t expect us to be in the tourney every year or even every other year. I just think we ought to be able to get back to the point where are a top 100 team most years, and when things break right make the tourney and when things don’t, maybe we make the NiT or at least come close.

I mean we were at that point in 14, 15, 16 when we made the NCAAs, won a road game in the NIT over an ACC team, and then won the NIT. 3 postseasons in 3 years, and well on our way to being the kind of team that was consistently in the top 100, making the NCAA once or twice every 4 years, and making the NIt once or twice in the same span.

So please don’t be so condescendingly dismissive of fans who have memories that go back longer than 6 years because this program was, and will again be, much better than the pathetically low standard GW Rising seems to aspire to while condescending to this who think we should be able to do better.

             Brilliantly said by FQ, from pointing out the constant condescending to those who don't tow the official line that everything is just terrific--to stating where we should be as a program. 
   We know what GW has been and what it can--and should be.
And no one should be snidely criticized for wanting much better than the less than mediocrity we've seen in recent years.
 

Joel Joseph wrote:

This was the year we were supposed to rise to the top half
 

We’re a half game out of the top half and have a good chance if we win out.

So mission accomplished?

Mentzinger wrote:

Free Quebec wrote:

it’s kind of depressing to think that people close to the program would be so dismissive of our ability to compete for NCAA bids on a semi-regular basis.
That is where we were before Patrick Nero, Tanya Vogel, and the administration tanked our program, and we ought to strive to get back there - and anyone who condescendingly uses snark to dismiss those who believe we should be able achieve that level ought to be nowhere near our basketball program.
So please don’t be so condescendingly dismissive of fans who have memories that go back longer than 6 years because this program was, and will again be, much better than the pathetically low standard GW Rising seems to aspire to while condescending to this who think we should be able to do better.

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