GW Hoops » James Bishop IV + NIL

Gwmayhem · 3/02/2023 12:25 pm

While we all celebrate another victory, largely made possible due to the incredibly clutch play of JBIV, there are a few questions worth pondering:

Will JBIV be returning to the team next year?
Would you like JBIV to return to the team next year?
Would you be willing, from an NIL standpoint, to help entice JBIV to return next year?

The first question will obviously be up to JBIV himself. Will another year of college advance his professional career aspirations? Might this extra year hurt these aspirations? Is he better served staying at GW or moving on to a higher collegiate level? What are his chances of competing in the NBA? The G league? Internationally? What does he stand to gain financially by playing professionally? And, what does he stand to gain financially by staying at GW (or perhaps at a different school)?

The next question is directed to us as fans. It's hard to imagine having a more gifted weapon offensively on next year's team than James. He can serve as a team leader and mentor to the three incoming freshmen. Since freshmen often do not produce in their first year the way that they will down the road, having James on next year's team likely makes the team more competitive, meaning a better won-loss record and a better chance of achieving postseason goals. On the other hand, we are bringing in a gifted point guard in Jacoi Hutchinson who will likely need to have the ball in his hands quite a bit to be effective. Jacoi probably made more appearances this year on ESPN linear networks than GW did, which is another way of saying that he is a freshman who I would anticipate being productive from day 1. Trey Autry and Christian Jones will likely be receiving their fair opportunities to play in next year's backcourt as well. I don't worry about James's ability to integrate his play with newcomers as much as I would be concerned about impeding the progress of one or more of our newcomers. My point is that there may not be an easy, obvious answer as to whether JBIV coming back to GW for one more year would be a great thing or not.

Let's assume though that you are of the mindset that of course you'd like James to return to GW. This is where NIL may potentially make a difference. I recently read about how another school is setting up its NIL program. For example, if you would like for a portion (or perhaps all) of an NIL contribution to be tax deductible, one can donate to a nonprofit fund where this money is specifically earmarked for athletes to take part in events that benefit nonprofit organizations. A separate alternative is what is being called a "One More Year Fund." This money is specifically used to entice athletes who have remaining eligibility but are considering turning pro to stay in college one more season. This is not a "pay for play" model because athletes do not make agreements as to how much compensation they receive until they first announce that they will be returning to school.

I have no idea how GW is setting up its NIL initiatives and frankly, aside from hearing that there is someone leading this effort, this has been a well kept secret. If a fan wanted James to return to GW next season and is in a financial position where they could help, I would hope that their contributions could be earmarked specifically for this purpose (i.e. for James as well as any other athlete with a similar decision to make).

It's a new world out there. Curious as to what you think of this idea.

Florida Colonial · 3/02/2023 12:50 pm

I'm currently donating monthly to the GW NIL and if I were to hear what exactly they are using it for (specifics players etc), I would consider increasing my donation. JB would certainly be one of those reasons

BM · 3/02/2023 2:36 pm

^^^same boat as FC.
Considering the lack of big recruits for 2023, I would expand that to enticing Dean to come back as well.

GWRising · 3/02/2023 2:49 pm

Unfortunately guys (and girls), you are not going to hear much about the NIL. The NIL both because of applicable rules and because of competitive knowledge is not going to publicly discuss who is getting what. If the player decides to discuss so be it. I know this frustrates people but it is what it is. Call up Penn State or Rutgers and see if they will tell you how much Player X is getting and for what. They will laugh at you.

That said, all I can say is that FOG is aware of certain players and their importance to GW basketball. FOG is also very aware of the growing importance of potential NIL opportunities in player determinations of where to play basketball. FOG is going to work diligently to make sure certain players have NIL opportunities commensurate with the value their NIL brings to GW basketball. It will be up to each player to determine the value of their NIL and make determinations accordingly.

All of this will play out over the coming months. You may hear nothing but that player X decides to return to GW or not. It is the hope that every player that CC wants to return will do so.

BM · 3/02/2023 2:52 pm

Asking for donations to a black box isn't a winning business plan

GW Alum Abroad · 3/02/2023 3:04 pm

A non-transparent slush fund? I am shocked. SHOCKED!
You would think the chance to be the marquee player in the conference would be a nice enticement for Bishop next season. Did anyone catch the worshipful video about Steph Curry that aired on the Davidson broadcast last night? Geesh, looked like the only thing they forgot to add was his turning water in to wine and bringing peace to Ukraine. GW could be the platform for Bishop to get an ego-stroking piece of fluff like that made in his honour.

Gwmayhem · 3/02/2023 3:06 pm

GWRising wrote:
Unfortunately guys (and girls), you are not going to hear much about the NIL. The NIL both because of applicable rules and because of competitive knowledge is not going to publicly discuss who is getting what. If the player decides to discuss so be it. I know this frustrates people but it is what it is. Call up Penn State or Rutgers and see if they will tell you how much Player X is getting and for what. They will laugh at you.

That said, all I can say is that FOG is aware of certain players and their importance to GW basketball. FOG is also very aware of the growing importance of potential NIL opportunities in player determinations of where to play basketball. FOG is going to work diligently to make sure certain players have NIL opportunities commensurate with the value their NIL brings to GW basketball. It will be up to each player to determine the value of their NIL and make determinations accordingly.

All of this will play out over the coming months. You may hear nothing but that player X decides to return to GW or not. It is the hope that every player that CC wants to return will do so.

GWRising, you've misunderstood or misinterpreted the meaning behind my post. Am not suggesting at all that the public should be made aware of how much NIL compensation any specific athlete makes. I am not even suggesting that people be allowed to donate funds which must be allocated to a specific person. What I am suggesting is that a fund be set up that would only apply to athletes with remaining eligibility but who also have the option of leaving the program early. So for this team, that fund could apply to James, Hunter, and if they are still eligible, Ricky and EJ. It could not apply to Brendan who is out of eligibility, or someone like Max who clearly is not ready to turn pro.

People could then donate to this fund without having any input as to the amount James would receive vs. Hunter or anyone else. The athlete is (hopefully) enticed to stay based on knowing that this fund exists but without knowing ahead of time how much $$$ they will be receiving.

Gwmayhem · 3/02/2023 3:10 pm

GW Alum Abroad wrote:
A non-transparent slush fund? I am shocked. SHOCKED!
You would think the chance to be the marquee player in the conference would be a nice enticement for Bishop next season.

Sorry GWAA but it's not. Not when other talented players are getting paid to stay in college when they don't have to. If you want a competitive program, you'd better be prepared to play by the new rules.

GWRising · 3/02/2023 3:34 pm

Let's be clear. NCAA rules prohibit using NIL funds as a carrot to retain players or to recruit them. However, if a player were made aware of NIL opportunities that potentially and generally exist at GW should he elect to come or stay that would be ok.

Also there is currently nothing prohibiting anyone from having their business offer a NIL opportunity to a player, and sign an agreement for services (such as endorsing a product or service).

This is a very tricky space. FOG cannot afford to screw it up. If it seems like a black box it is because that is what some of us warned of at the time - the wild west and evolving rules. Also while smaller donations are welcomed and encouraged, I can tell you that players in the A-10 are getting 5 figures if not more annually for NIL. It will take a lot of smaller donations to cover that. FOG will need larger NIL opportunities based on individual discussions with potential donors or businesses. Those are occurring between FOG and individuals. GW is not part of that nor can it be. All GW can do is direct folks to FOG if they are interested in donating.

Sorry, I didn't make the rules as crazy as they are.

GWRising · 3/02/2023 3:37 pm

Gwmayhem wrote:
GWRising wrote:
Unfortunately guys (and girls), you are not going to hear much about the NIL. The NIL both because of applicable rules and because of competitive knowledge is not going to publicly discuss who is getting what. If the player decides to discuss so be it. I know this frustrates people but it is what it is. Call up Penn State or Rutgers and see if they will tell you how much Player X is getting and for what. They will laugh at you.

That said, all I can say is that FOG is aware of certain players and their importance to GW basketball. FOG is also very aware of the growing importance of potential NIL opportunities in player determinations of where to play basketball. FOG is going to work diligently to make sure certain players have NIL opportunities commensurate with the value their NIL brings to GW basketball. It will be up to each player to determine the value of their NIL and make determinations accordingly.

All of this will play out over the coming months. You may hear nothing but that player X decides to return to GW or not. It is the hope that every player that CC wants to return will do so.
GWRising, you've misunderstood or misinterpreted the meaning behind my post. Am not suggesting at all that the public should be made aware of how much NIL compensation any specific athlete makes. I am not even suggesting that people be allowed to donate funds which must be allocated to a specific person. What I am suggesting is that a fund be set up that would only apply to athletes with remaining eligibility but who also have the option of leaving the program early. So for this team, that fund could apply to James, Hunter, and if they are still eligible, Ricky and EJ. It could not apply to Brendan who is out of eligibility, or someone like Max who clearly is not ready to turn pro.

People could then donate to this fund without having any input as to the amount James would receive vs. Hunter or anyone else. The athlete is (hopefully) enticed to stay based on knowing that this fund exists but without knowing ahead of time how much $$$ they will be receiving.

Gwmayhem ... See my answer above. I believe such a fund would get us in the crosshairs of the NCAA if it were described as you have stated it..

Last edited by GWRising (3/02/2023 3:38 pm)

jf · 3/02/2023 3:56 pm

The only that can be sure is the NCAA screwing this up--or weighing it in favor of big schools.
James, for example, is the very symbol of how an opportunity at a competitive, but not P5 school (like he attended before this) can make a huge difference in value.
And provide an excellent education as well as a future financial rewards if you want to play basketball after college.

Florida Colonial · 3/02/2023 4:25 pm

GWRising wrote:
Unfortunately guys (and girls), you are not going to hear much about the NIL. The NIL both because of applicable rules and because of competitive knowledge is not going to publicly discuss who is getting what. If the player decides to discuss so be it. I know this frustrates people but it is what it is. Call up Penn State or Rutgers and see if they will tell you how much Player X is getting and for what. They will laugh at you.

That said, all I can say is that FOG is aware of certain players and their importance to GW basketball. FOG is also very aware of the growing importance of potential NIL opportunities in player determinations of where to play basketball. FOG is going to work diligently to make sure certain players have NIL opportunities commensurate with the value their NIL brings to GW basketball. It will be up to each player to determine the value of their NIL and make determinations accordingly.

All of this will play out over the coming months. You may hear nothing but that player X decides to return to GW or not. It is the hope that every player that CC wants to return will do so.

GWRising,
Not knowing how these things works I do have some questions.
1)Can't FOG let those who are donating know in generality about what they are doing . Without specific names or $.
2) Once they sign someone to a NIL will they or can they publicize the signing?

Last edited by Florida Colonial (3/02/2023 4:26 pm)

Gwmayhem · 3/02/2023 4:32 pm

GWRising, I am not making up the model. This is exactly what the University of Michigan has set up for its football program. They are calling it The One More Year Fund and it's specific intent is to entice draft-eligible seniors such as Blake Corum, Cornelius Johnson, Zak Zinter and Trevor Keegan to remain at Michigan and play football one more season. As a contributor, I can't say that I only want my money going to Corum, nor can I find out how much each player ultimately receives. I'm just contributing to the fund knowing that the money will be received by these players.

Last edited by Gwmayhem (3/02/2023 4:33 pm)

Merrick · 3/02/2023 5:23 pm

FOG has serious people with integrity working on it who want to do things the right way and steer clear of reputational risk for the university, its players/coaches, and FOG itself. The fact is that if we have nothing to offer players at the mid-major level in combo with all of the other benefits GW may offer, we can't compete the way all of us desire. Forget about the P5, they've got more $$$ in their collectives than we could ever imagine.

I don't want to throw money into a black box either, but it seems we've got a lot of casual gamblers here and perhaps folks that don't mind spending ten bucks on a beer at a sporting event. When FOG is up and running, give it a shot. Start small--whatever you are comfortable with.

My dilemma is that all my prior "donations" have been charitable in nature. Do I now want to donate merely to put cash directly into a young kids' hands. Hopefully, the work necessary to earn that cash will be for something worthy, but as I noted more than a year ago, if you're not in this game, you are out. That is the new reality--and it's not going to change any time soon.

GW0509 · 3/14/2023 8:13 am

It would be nice if FOG were able to do a tweet like this. Maybe it's because they don't have enough money to do so, but it would be nice to have some sort of communication that the monthly donations aren't just going into a black box.

@TheMassCo
BREAKING NEWS @TheMassCo is thrilled to announce a major NIL agreement with UMass star and A10 all-rookie team player RJ Luis @RjLuis21! More information will be available in our upcoming press release. Stay tuned for details! #NIL #UMass #A10Basketball #GoUMass

Last edited by GW0509 (3/14/2023 8:14 am)

GWRising · 3/14/2023 9:21 am

GW0509 wrote:
It would be nice if FOG were able to do a tweet like this. Maybe it's because they don't have enough money to do so, but it would be nice to have some sort of communication that the monthly donations aren't just going into a black box.

@TheMassCo
BREAKING NEWS @TheMassCo is thrilled to announce a major NIL agreement with UMass star and A10 all-rookie team player RJ Luis @RjLuis21! More information will be available in our upcoming press release. Stay tuned for details! #NIL #UMass #A10Basketball #GoUMass

Sit tight. When FOG or a business has something to announce, it will be announced. There are rules to this.

Last edited by GWRising (3/14/2023 9:22 am)

squid · 3/22/2023 2:00 pm

GWRising wrote:
Sit tight. When FOG or a business has something to announce, it will be announced. There are rules to this.

We all know there are rules to this -- however, there have been no updates on Twitter since November, none of the promised benefits to donors have happened, and no one responds to emails or tweets. Surely there is some way to say something about the NIL publicly without breaking any NCAA rules. And especially, to say something outside of this message board. As others have noted, if people knew that something, anything was happening, they would be more likely to donate. And if there actually were tweets or other press, you might reach more people who wanted to donate.

squid · 3/22/2023 2:04 pm

For example, the MassCo https://twitter.com/TheMassCo has been posting that people should join their collective, posting info about NILs, hosting Q&As, participating in NIL conversations, giving away seats, and so on. So clearly people know they are doing something, even if they don't know the specifics of what they're working on.

They have more tweets since March 19 than Friends of George does overall.

Florida Colonial · 3/22/2023 2:11 pm

Squid.. I completely agree.. Communication to those donating has completely been missing. Its a good strategy if you want to have people lose interest.. How about just some type of acknowledgment and update other that the monthly email that our $ has been received. Maybe some of us would convince others to join or even up our contribution.

Merrick · 3/22/2023 7:17 pm

Sit tight. All donations to FOG, regardless of amount, will be fly insured and backed by the FDIC.