GW Hoops

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7/09/2020 5:53 am  #1


Why are we dictating and moving or removing what flies for off season topics?  why are things moved or deleted that are perfectly reasonable?

how many beat to death and fictional free throw contests can the Board have but we can't ... Sorry but the Herve days were a lot better, just the facts, the site is stale as 71 day old bread

So was the team at times, better and less stale
there were Limo rides, Ohio St threads, made up fictional Oscars, we can't have an ML thread in the offseason???


7/09/2020 10:25 pm  #2

Re: Topics

Dude, I would hope you understand that there are topics that turn off a good number of people.  These are threads that end up creating arguments of a personal nature.  They lead to nothing positive. 

Did I jump the gun on moving these over to this new folder?  Perhaps, but I'm ok with that.  

These discussions have been had, re-had, and now are being had again.  If the members of the board disagree with me and think these are topics that we should have dominating our conversation on the main folder, please feel free to post.  If you're good with clearing the muck into a different folder, would love to hear that as well.  



7/10/2020 6:37 am  #3

Re: Topics

BGF I'm with you on this. 100% support your decision. 


7/10/2020 7:33 am  #4

Re: Topics

I want to say that I am guilty for having jumped into a basketball discussion that turned into a political/race discussion. While I am passionate about both, I now regret engaging in multiple rounds of posts here on those topics.  I apologized to GWRising for questioning him on his political beliefs or what I may have incorrectly inferred about some of his comments regarding race, and I regret putting GWRising or anyone else in a position where they felt badly about me or my posts.  I am glad BGF moved the disucssion out of the main folder. Thank you to BGF for doing that.

Again speaking only for me, I feel it's unbecoming to the posters, the board and to GW to write or suggest some of the things that have been written over and over, especially about former GW employees and players.  I would prefer these topics get moved out of the main folder.   That way, anyone who cares to discuss them can still have the conversation without upsetting anybody that wants to avoid exposure to the negativity.  Also, and this is only the way I feel, but I think it would be better to altogether stop posting some of these hurtful things, but I'm not suggesting any form of censorship.  

Last edited by 22ndandF (7/10/2020 7:49 am)


7/10/2020 7:40 am  #5

Re: Topics

100% agree with moving them, and no way was the old board better.


7/10/2020 8:26 am  #6

Re: Topics

Barry, Support you 100% on this.  It is your board, manage it how you please.

If these same num-nuts want to have the same conversations over and over, let them have their little corner where they can rant and rave at one another, and allow the rest of the board to remain mostly civil.


7/10/2020 5:20 pm  #7

Re: Topics

There were things in the recent "dead horse" threads on Nero and Lonergan that I was unaware of (i.e. terms of the Nero buyout), as well as some interesting discussion as to why ML is not involved in college basketball.  Developments during that time are still impacting the program today, as we struggle to regain relevance.    I have no problems with those discussions....for those not interested, they can just buy pass that thread.  As for the prior board, it seemed to me that Herve lost interest long before the board was finally shut down,, and he had no desire to fix what was a horrible situation with the vicious personal attacks and the use of multiple board names.  That board became an embarrassment when posters from other schools would visit to discuss upcoming games.   It  paled in comparison to this board.  Thank you again Barry.


7/10/2020 11:55 pm  #8

Re: Topics

LSF, thanks.  We are approaching our 1-year anniversary of this board and I find myself appreciating Herve's challenges.  There were definitely a few times this past year that I was not far from handing this board off to the next person who wanted it, but thought better of it.  I think the solution is not for me to remove discussions completely from the site except in the rarest of circumstances; the new folder is my way of saying if an issue devolves from the intended topic to a point where personal attacks occur (or the stage is set for them to occur), then they'll go in the other folder.  Those who want to visit those posts will.

And to prove it, I'm moving this discussion there now.  This discussion has run its course, as now we are rehashing the old board's merit.  Herve has my eternal respect for creating the old board and trying to keep it alive.

Good night.



7/12/2020 11:22 am  #9

Re: Topics

A few thoughts ...

1. First and foremost, this is BGF's sandbox so he can set any rules that he thinks benefits discourse here and we all have to abide by them. 
2. I do think when erroneous information is posted here, it is the responsibility of those with knowledge of particular facts to post them here to the extent they can. There are often newcomers who may not know the history of GW basketball or how we got to this place in time. Painting a misleading portrait does no one any good.
3. I expect eventually that new facts will be unearthed in the cases of both ML and PN. I have heard that there is not a lifetime gag order on the settlement but rather a period of years. Don't know whether that is absolutely true but I have heard it from multiple sources. If true, expect future developments at some point.
4. A note to 22andF - no offense taken. We (you and I) were having a mostly respectful back and forth. Most people are unfortunately too divided and too sensitive right now to basically have any civil discourse about politics or the issues of the day. As a result, I agree we should not pollute this board with the divisions that exist elsewhere and I have tried to do my best to let the more recent non-sequitur political jabs go. If it ends up that it is only GW basketball that unites us (I actually don't think that is the case) than so be it. At least that is better than the alternative.


7/13/2020 9:53 am  #10

Re: Topics

This most certainly is BGF's site and as such, any decision of consequence ought to come from him.  I would hope that BGF takes into account feedback from the board's regular posters, and my own experience with him would suggest that this is genuinely the case.

Personally, my own criteria on "beating a dead horse" topics has everything to do with whether any new information advances the discussion.  And, sometimes, you have to give an old topic some time to see if anything emerges.  Our recent example is a solid one.  The Dude posted about Lonergan, something about getting second chances.  I'm sure he can argue that this was an original thread as there hasn't been much if any discussion as to whether ML will enter into coaching again or whether he could be blackballed.   You could also argue that The Dude was just bored and looking to stir up some controversy for no real reason; his track record certainly suggests this could have been the case.  Nevertheless, it was Joel Joseph who brought to life new information.  Countering with a PN thread, he mentioned what The Hatchet reported on roughly a month ago, that Nero has received $1.3 million from the university since his unceremonious departure.  

This is why BGF's decision to move the thread was disappointing to me.  This piece of information merited some discussion.  Yes, this discussion can still be had as the thread hasn't been removed.  Nevertheless, the perception is that because it's been moved, it's a thread that either is tired or should not be taken seriously.  Kind of like a 25 year old being asked to sit at the children's table.

Given all of the acrimony on the old board, problems which LSF did an excellent job in detailing, it's easy to understand why anyone would make a snap judgement.  Lonergan thread?  Bury it.  Nero thread?  Enough already.  But again, as LSF points out, we are conflating issues.  The problems with the old board were the result of something that I will spare everyone here, something that had nothing to do with ML or PN.

Sorry but Nero being paid $1.3 million over the past fiscal year?  That is newsworthy and deserving of its own real thread in which anyone could readily contribute.  It's news that does not deserve to be sitting at the children's table. 


7/13/2020 11:11 pm  #11

Re: Topics

Mayhem, I find your response in relation to the new folder to be spoken in a completely respectful and well-thought-out manner.  And having re-read the two posts that spurred the creation of the new folder, they had not yet devolved into the acrimonious tone that I fully expected they were going.  The reason for the new folder was to prevent the entire GWHoops family (and yes, I see us that way), our fan community, from falling into the same problems that caused Herve's site to die.  

I understand and respect anyone who wants more information on a topic, even one as difficult for many of us to listen to as the Nero/ML debacle. However, some topics clearly become debates between 2 or 3 posters and turn off the rest of the board members.  They often include subtle jabs that lead to defensive responses that in turn lead to genuine personal attacks, and then it gets ugly. 

And then I have a choice to delete the topics, suspend users, or risk losing the other 95% of the board members who are done with it all.  This should be an easy board to run, but I have found myself understanding any frustration Herve may have had.  Truly.

My error here was not in creating a new folder to move these topics to; I stand by that decision.  I think that the alternative was to wait until the topics turned ugly and then be stuck trying to figure out what to do (and when to do it).  Creating the folder provides the ability to allow these topics to remain active until and unless they have gone beyond the point of no return, and to give a forum for those interested in the kind of debate that I personally abhor.

No, my error was naming it as I did.  You are 100% correct that naming the folder as I did creates the impression that a topic is not worth our time, which is not my intent.  Rather, my goal was to clear the main folder from the personal attack-driven topics.  

The reality is that while I believe the folder is important, my own personal opinion was/is that these topics are now irrelevant and simply cause me to feel a mixture of embarrassment for a university that I love, disillusionment with the program as a whole, and frustration/anger that people can be as nasty to each other as they have on the Herve board (and thankfully much less so here). 

Like a Pavlovian dog, every time these topics arise, I leave the board for days on end and consider shutting the site down (or more likely finding another less-jaded board member to take it over).

In any case, Mayhem, please accept my apology and I invite you to provide me a name for the folder that keeps it separate from the main board but does so in a way that does not diminish any value that can be found in the topics.  I will not refrain from moving a topic I think should go there, but I will be respectful and judicious in deciding when a topic needs to be relocated (or removed).





7/14/2020 6:05 am  #12

Re: Topics


Thanks for all that you do- I am sure you feel like this is a ful time unpaid job at times.

I agree with putting these topics in a separate folder as well.  There are 2 separate camps and neither is going to convince the other.  Keeping them live allows anyone to post new info but will not have to be read by those of us (I include myself) that just want to move on.  Maybe labeling the folder with the years of the Nero/Lonergan era may be a way to define what is out there.

Thanks again.  Enjoy catching up on GW basketball and your site is really the only way.


7/14/2020 9:58 am  #13

Re: Topics

Barry, thank you for your response.  While we may disagree, you by no means owe me an apology.  I do understand everything you're saying.  My brief counter is to suggest that what we call the folder isn't really the main issue in my mind.  Going back to my analogy with the 25 year old sitting at the children's table, would the 25 year old feel any better if the table was called The Future Leaders of America table?  Probably not.  I feel that once you remove the thread and put it into a separate folder, the perception is that this is a nonsense thread.  And in the case we're discussing, I would not consider this a nonsense thread at all.

That said, I fully understand that you also hold the option of banishing the thread altogether and you have clearly chosen not to do this.  I certainly commend you for this.

While I am opposed to having to create a new folder, if this is the direction you're taking, as for a new name, how about Classic GW Hoops?  It sounds better, and Classic can mean often-discussed.  


7/14/2020 10:32 am  #14

Re: Topics

Gwmayhem wrote:

as for a new name, how about Classic GW Hoops?  It sounds better, and Classic can mean often-discussed.  

"GW Hoops Uncensored" or "GW Hoops After Dark"


7/14/2020 11:11 am  #15

Re: Topics

GW0509, LOL.  I'm not convinced that threads involving Mr. Nero should appear within a folder entitled "GW Hoops After Dark."  


7/14/2020 11:18 am  #16

Re: Topics

I think much of the previous rancor that permeated Herve's board regarding ML/PN came from one of the following sources:

1. Those with loyal support for or a visceral dislike of either. This could have been friends, family, employees, associates. Most of the people who were closely tied to one party or the other are mostly gone either through the passage of time or because you can only stay actively aggrieved for so long.
2. Those who don't know any or many facts. This includes most here. GW caused much of this problem by summarily getting rid of both at different times with little explanation. Therefore, into this vacuum came a lot of arguing as to who did what/when and much speculation. I think we have largely moved past this point again due to the passage of time and unless new verified facts come out (which may happen at some point) it is just useless to rehash the same speculation time and time again.
3. Those who lamented neither the of the departures but who believe that the program was left in shambles for a time and GW did not care. In some cases, these individuals took shots at both ML and PN for their roles in creating the situation and depending on what the topic played both sides against each other.
4. Those with strong opinions on the general allegations independent of the facts. If you thought coaching abuse was a huge issue you tended to have confirming bias against ML. If you thought predatory sexual abuse by folks in power was an issue, you tended to have confirming bias against PN. That's not to say that either occurred just that some bought into the allegations at surface level and approached the debate accordingly.  

That all said, two things will continue to diminish the rancor over these events. The first could almost eliminate it and that would be for JC to return the program to relevance and return to the NCAA tournament. Winning always covers a multitude of sins and changes the discussion. It would bump this topic to near irrelevancy except for the casual historian. 

The second will be the mere passage of time. Again, this becomes less and less interesting as it becomes farther in the rear view mirror. 

People may never agree as to what exactly happened or upon the action that GW took. But it is largely water under the bridge that will eventually just fade away. I also get that in the era of COVID-19 we have little to discuss so topics like these understandably will appear from time to time.

All of that is to say, in my opinion, BGF can place this topic wherever he thinks necessary under whatever name he believes is best because I hope in very short order we won't need to talk about it much any longer. 


7/14/2020 12:00 pm  #17

Re: Topics

I would hope that any time new information emerges, there would be nothing wrong with having a discussion specifically pertaining to the new information.  In this instance, Nero being paid $1.3 million by the school given the circumstances which led to his abrupt departure warrants some discussion.  Fully agree that there is no point in rehashing the tired "who did what to whom" conversation unless any new information surfaces which pertains to this.


7/14/2020 12:25 pm  #18

Re: Topics

Gwmayhem wrote:

I would hope that any time new information emerges, there would be nothing wrong with having a discussion specifically pertaining to the new information.  In this instance, Nero being paid $1.3 million by the school given the circumstances which led to his abrupt departure warrants some discussion.  Fully agree that there is no point in rehashing the tired "who did what to whom" conversation unless any new information surfaces which pertains to this.

Mayhem, I agree with you (wow, that's news in itself! ).  If new news arises that impacts the present, I am all for it being in the main folder.  When it is something that simply rehashes the "who did what to whom," that's when I just want to stop the world and jump off.

Very appreciative of the feedback received here.  I never wanted this to be "my board," and I certainly don't see it that way.  I simply got fed up one day and did something about it.  So now I suppose it is my decision since I am the one with the keys to the website.

I like the idea of the classic idea, but I prefer different wording.  Look for a change later today.  



7/24/2020 9:46 am  #19

Re: Topics

There is nothing wrong with spirited and passionate discussions.  This is very entertaining.  What cannot be allowed is personal attacks on other posters.   How about something like "Hot Button Topics" or "Off Court Discussions", and leave the Xs and Os and discussions of who was the all time best 3 point shooter or should the Smith Center be enlarged to the main board?


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