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2/28/2021 7:18 am  #1

I just don’t see the plan

I am spoiled.  I started at GW watching Chris Monroe break a scoring record with a cool freshman in TJ.  I watched a group of freshman grow together, coupled with a really good class behind them.  In hindsight, my rage at out of control Omar Williams was misplaced.

I watched that team succeed.  I watched the collapse of the program.  I watched lonergan create a new group of good players to follow.  And, while not as successful as the first group, at least they were fun.  And, at least I could watch and see development.

I wanted the same from JC.  And, I just don’t see it.  Jamison and bishop and Lindo seem great.  And maybe they grow together.  But I’ve watched JNj leave, chase become limited, and this year’s freshman class look like an overhyped group.  I don’t see the development, or the plan.  I don’t see what is happening as growing pains—just pains.

This is a plea for help.  Somebody, with more perspective than me, please tell me I’m missing something.  Please show me the plan and development I can’t see.  I’m not calling for JC’s job.  All coaches should get at least  three years.  And, given the pandemic, a fourth would not be unreasonable.  But please, somebody, help me see what I am missing


2/28/2021 10:30 am  #2

Re: I just don’t see the plan

Well, now I get it!

     Thread Starter

2/28/2021 2:03 pm  #3

Re: I just don’t see the plan

I’ve picked up a pitchfork and torch in the past, but this year I’m giving the whole program a covid pass. HOWEVER I freely admit there is plenty of thin ice and banana peels all around this program. I fear a Battle transfer. Next year I really want to see some defense. As it is GW is incredibly easy to play against.


2/28/2021 2:49 pm  #4

Re: I just don’t see the plan

1) Season is not over (not sure if that is for the better or worse)
2) So many games were lost to COVID and the stupidity of Americans that the most accurate grade one could give this team so far is "incomplete"
3) Judging the team based on the three post-35 day pause games is a bit like judging the career path of the Jefferson Airplane/Jefferson Starship/Starship based on its output after Grace Slick retired.
4) The pre-Jan 6 trajectory was multi-directional, but none of those directions was up.
5) Cristian is yet to have a full season of his plan with his players take place.
6) What constitutes a "good" season at GW is not applicable to the criteria for "good" at other schools, and can vary greatly from year-to-year.
7) Coaches/administrators need to know that "GW recruits graduating from GW" is probably the baseline for endearing themselves to us in the peanut gallery, winning with those recruits will make us happy and hanging banners with those recruits will give us orgasms. So, when players leave AND the team wins just a quarter of its games they can expect restlessness from the natives, even the more patient ones.
8) The St Bona game was a real stinker that may make one question the purpose of fielding a team. As a kid, my dad took me to see Hank Aaron play once toward the end of his career (he was DH for the Brewers). Aaron went hitless. While I never saw him get even a hit, Aaron is still the greatest home run hitter in the history of the game (no juiced balls or biceps for him). The Stinker in Olean is not the whole of this team, nor is the adversity-defying win over URI.


Last edited by GW Alum Abroad (2/28/2021 3:08 pm)


2/28/2021 3:13 pm  #5

Re: I just don’t see the plan

Well said, DanJ
In nutshell,we have better talent than our record (especially the pre-Covid outbreak, but now,too) shows. The OOC was a humiliating disaster.
Players like JNJ and Maceo,whom we could sorely use right now,left midseason.
  Offensively, we are stagnant. We have a great scorer like Jamison that we don't get the ball to in shooting position,even when he's waving his hands. Even the announcers last game noticed that players ignored their teammates.
Virtually every team moves the ball better. Our offense is a frustrating one-man show and it results in bad choices and late in the clock hurried shots. We don't push the ball. Our passes are often a full beat too slow,more out of desperation than setting up the other player.
  There is no Mayhem. We applied real hard pressure once on an inbounds near the end of one game--and it worked. But it was an ultra-rare phenomenon. And now we can't do it as we don't have the energy to spare.
  The odd rigidity of man and zone defense (and bizarre out of sync mix one game) cost us dearly last year and earlier this year. Once again,even unfamiliar announcers pointed it out.
  Playing times seem illogical and benching inconsistent. This no doubt led and leads to team stress and departures.
Other issues include respect for the former GW standouts and the fog of mystery in personnel actions. Could list a number of other problem areas.
  There were certainly things to like about JC,especially compared to a nightmare alternative. But it's time to get it together. A nearly 50 point loss to a conference opponent pulling punches at the end is not really a harbinger of good things to come.
  Willing to eat these words if we win the upcoming A10 tournament.
  Maybe we'll make the NCAAs next year. But despite the advertising of turnaround capabilities, the program doesn't have the feel of the early but developing Jarvis,Hobbs or Lonergan eras.
  Perhaps JC can pull a rabbit out of his hat or this dissolution and disarray was the plan all along.
But right now, the road feels unnecessarily and painfully bumpy.

Last edited by jf (2/28/2021 3:15 pm)


2/28/2021 5:01 pm  #6

Re: I just don’t see the plan

Thoroughly agree with JF. Except, that I believe he is too optimistic. I looked at GW’s opening out of conference losses to weak programs and became convinced that we do not have a coach who will be successful. Maceo Jack was an asset to the program. When a program has a senior that leaves early it is a reflection of their negative relationship with the coach. Look how many players ,in the last several years, on the GW rooster left early not completing their senior year here. JNJ was as an athletic a player as GW has ever had. Early on he had a great bond with the coach. Losing him will come back to bite the program. I believe the wheels of the bus will continue to unravel with transfers and de-commitments. I have no confidence in this head coach. A nice guy -yes, a good coach-no.


2/28/2021 6:10 pm  #7

Re: I just don’t see the plan

Dan, I’ve lost a lot of confidence this year because the defense is so porous and the offense is easy to guard.  I’m going to give you a long analysis of the problem and the plan, at least as I see it.

As I said, I’ve lost some confidence this year - butI haven’t given up all hope.  I think the key is we need better players to surround our Big 3.

  I’m assuming Moyer isn’t coming back, but it’s also important to remember that our 4 best players haven’t played together in a single game this year. I have to think that with Lindo, we don’t get off to as bad a start as we did earlier in the year and with Moyer, we beat George Mason, but obviously I can’t know that.

I have no doubt that Bishop, Battle, and Lindo are good enough to be the 3 best players on a top 3 or 4 A10 team.  I believe they are athletic enough, talented enough, and versatile enough. 

But with all due respect I don’t think any of other players (besides Moyer) are good enough - at least right now - to be top 6 or 7 players on a top level A10 team.  The one exception is I do like Tyler Brelsford, and could see him becoming an elite 6th man in the league because he can really fill it up and should get better. But right now, other than Bishop, Brelsford, Lindo, and Moyer, we don’t have anyone else who would crack the top 7 of any of the top A-10 teams.

With due respect to Lincoln Ball, I don’t see him as an A10 starter. Maybe he’ll get better, but the total lack of scoring is a problem. The guy is not averaging 2 points a game and that isn’t going to cut it especially because while he works hard on defense, he doesn’t seem to have the lateral quickness to guard elite slashers.  He has good glue guy skills, but what top 5 A10 team would he get minutes on, let alone start for?

I’m not sold on our centers either. Chase can score against smaller players, but even last year he didn’t rebound or defend much.  Not sure he’ll ever develop into the quality of center we would need as a starter. 

Likewise Hunter.  He does some decent things out there, but he can’t rebound and since he isn’t shooting, he’s a better fit as an offensive-minded big off the bench (especially if he becomes a reliable pick and pop option).   Again, neither Paar nor Dean would get minutes on any top A10 team, let alone start.

Noel Brown has potential, but I worry he doesn’t have the explosive athleticism to be an elite A10 center, like an Ossunyi or even someone like Makhiei Mitchell or Jordi Tshimanga.  He definitely has the size and he can pass, and I suppose he can develop moves, but based on what we’ve seen this year, I think it’s an open question whether he can develop into more than a very strong backup center In the league, but I do believe he can get there. Starting center on an NCAA team, though, would require a lot of improvement.

I think Sloane is the other player I haven’t mentioned and I think we all know that unless he’s shooting 60% from three, he’s a liability.  I think JC made a mistake bringing him here, but maybe it’s just covid and other issues that have kept him from being the player JC hoped he would be. 

As for the departed players, I honestly think their departure hasn’t hurt us - other than simply not having enough bodies right now.  Maceo Jack is totally overrated by this board.  He’s an average shooter, a below average defender, and not a ball handler.  He’d be better than Lincoln as a starter right now, but long term his staying wouldn’t really matter. 

As for JNJ, he’s a great talent, but he needs time to develop.  I think he made the right decision to move on because what role would he have played?  He’s a great defender, but the lack of shooting and poor half court ball handling make him a bit of a square peg on offense for a team like ours.  I think he’d be a better fit on a team that plays more like a weave or motion offense rather than a high ball screen or Jarvis-style 4 around 1 offense.

The only reason I bring up JNJ and Jack is to say that them departing doesn’t change the fact that we need better players around the Big 3 to start winning big.

So In terms of the plan, I think step one is to continue to upgrade talent. And here’s where that stands, as far we know:
- Brayon Freeman appears to be a very talented guard.  Seems to be more sought after and regarded than this year’s freshmen.  If he’s as advertised (and I believe in him), then that could give a nice 3 guard rotation with Bishop, Tyler, and Freeman - and If Freeman can run PnR, then we will be less predictable because teams won’t know where the attack is coming from and  Bishop could play off the ball more.
- Gapare appears to be very talented (touted as a possible future pro),  though we don’t know if he’s coming next year or in two years.  Assuming he’s coming next year, he’s a long, athletic forward.  I could see he and Lindo being switchable Fs who could cause a lot of problems for opponents on the perimeter and if he’s a starting level offensive player, that would be huge for us. 
- Nixon seems well regarded. He also gives us more athleticism, which should help the defense.
- Then on top of what appears to be our best group of freshmen in several years, I’m sure we will bring in more transfers.  Hopefully high quality, athletic.  More Lindos and less, with apologies, Seymours.

So Step 1 is upgrade talent.

Step 2 is to play a more aggressive style of defense.  I loved what I saw of Lindo and Moyer the two games  they played together.  They were switching everything and causing some problems (9 steals combined vs VCU). We were missing Battle those two games, so it’s easy to forget that both the Dayton and VCU games with Lindo and Moyer were close.  I think with Gapare and Nixon and Lindo and Moyer, you can see that JC wants long Fs who can switch interchangeably so our defense can become more fluid and difficult.  I do have my doubts about his ability to teach defense based on what I’ve seen in 1.5 years, but I think with more talent, his scheme could work.

Step 3 is to keep upgrading our shooting.  Imagine where we’d be with two Battles on the fooor?  Right now it’s too easy for opponents to just stick on battle because we are playing 3 on 5 every possession. But if Freeman can click right away and we bring in a decent transfer, it should - in theory - transform our offense and make Bishop a better, more efficient player.

So I guess that’s the plan — surround an elite play-making guard (which we have) with shooters and switchable defenders (of which we have some but not nearly enough), but all 5 starters have to be the level or Lindo/Battle for it to work. 

I’m also of the mind to write this season off as a mulligan. Lack of practice hurt us early, then we did show improvement once conference playoff started, and then injuries to Battle and Moyer really hurt, plus the very long layoff and then 3 games in 6 days was just really rough.  Hopefully we get it together to win a game or two in the A10 tourney to give us some optimism going into the offseason (I’m hoping we don’t draw St Joe because I think they are a tougher matchup for us than a lot of teams even despite their record and ranking ).

At any rate, that’s what I think the plan is.  I hope it can work.


2/28/2021 7:50 pm  #8

Re: I just don’t see the plan

I concur with FQ's assessment of JC's plan and I concur with feeling a bit down about how long this turnaround might take and whether JC can pull it off in 5 years. 

I think our bigs have been our biggest liability basically since Collin Smith transferred in May of 2017.  Bo Zeigler was serviceable at times but otherwise we've had to get by with the likes of Goss, Langarica, Littles, and now Paar.  Clearly basketball is moving away from just having a big stiff at C so it's not as vital as it used to be to have a back to the basket big, but this team would blossom if we could just get a big who could pass like KevLar or Grant Golden (hell even a Steeves with his YMCA moves). Noel Brown has the frame to be a successful big in the A-10 but he REALLY needs to work on his footwork.  

Being able to work in and out would do wonders for our shooters and slashers.  I really believe that if we can somehow land an Armwood-type transfer we could be in the top half of the conference.  I don't know why it's been so difficult for JC and Mojo before him to get a P5 transfer big to come run things down low for us.

Last edited by GW0509 (2/28/2021 9:07 pm)


2/28/2021 8:54 pm  #9

Re: I just don’t see the plan

Unless I overlooked it, I believe you left off Amir Harris as reason for optimism, Free    He should help next season.  Will be interesting to see what next years freshman class looks like.  I am concerned that as of this point, the only quality players that the Coach is able to recruit to the school are highly recruited rated power conference players who underperformed on the bigger stage.  I would also like to see a team perform as a cohesive unit where players share the ball and make each other better.  With the exception of the back door cuts (mostly by Battle and when he was healthy Moyer), I am seeing too much one on one play on offense, and a defense that is too slow to defend and not nearly as aggressive as they need to be.   I am really expecting some major progress next season, but I have been disappointed with this season, even with all of its caveats.   Further, you can spin it however you wish, but 3 players leaving an undermanned team in the middle of a season is not a good look for a program, nor was the Mike Hall debacle..  Yes, lets give this season a mulligan and do next season better.

Last edited by Long Suffering Fan (2/28/2021 10:30 pm)


2/28/2021 10:47 pm  #10

Re: I just don’t see the plan

Long Suffering Fan wrote:

Unless I overlooked it, I believe you left off Amir Harris as reason for optimism, Free    Will be interesting to see what next years freshman class looks like in terms of ability.  I am concerned that as of this point, the only quality players that the Coach is able to recruit to the school are highly recruited rated power conference players who underperformed on the bigger stage.  I would also like to see a team perform as a cohesive unit where players share the ball and make each other better.  With the exception of the back door cuts (mostly by Battle and when he was healthy Moyer), I am seeing too much one on one play on offense, and a defense that is too slow to defend and not nearly as aggressive as they need to be.   I am really expecting some major progress next season, but I have been disappointed with this season, even with all of its caveats.   Further, you can spin it however you wish, but 3 players leaving an undermanned team in the middle of a season is not a good look for a program, nor was the Mike Hall debacle..  Yes, lets give this season a mulligan and do next season better.

You are right.  I did forget about Amir.  If he is 90% of his best next year, that’s a huge addition. It’s easy to forget, but last year when Amir was healthy and we had a full complement of players, we played pretty well. 

I don’t think Amir solves our offensive woes - he’s great in transition, but I’m not sure he’ll ever be more than a 5th option/glue guy on offense, but he’s definitely better at it than; say, Ball is right now.  A healthy Amir fits that athletic, switchable defender we need so badly.  In fact, if we were fielding a lineup right now of Bishop, Battle; Harris, Lindo, and Moyer, I could see that being one of the best defensive lineups in the A10 - moyer, Lindo, and Harris could switch everything and all have the speed and length to help and recover (Bishop and Battle are average defenders at best right now, but with three switchable long guys like those around them, it would make them better).

  Harris coming back healthy would definitely help, as should they arrival of Gapare (if he’s coming).

To your other point, LSF, I would be fine our recruiting was heavily reliant on BCS cast offs. Not all will succeed, but in the modern game, where more players will transfer than not, it’s the best way to get proven talent.

I’ve written this here before, but BCS schools used to use 13 scholarships on recruits every 4 years. Then with the advent of one and domes, they started to use more like 16 or 17 (the KYs and Dukes more, the Clemsons or South Carolina’s, less). 

But now that half the players transfer, BCS schools give out more schollies to freshmen than ever (replacing the guys who don’t work out - like how Bishop was expendible at LSU when they landed Cam Thomas).   So when they suck up more of the top high school recruits, that forces A10 level teams to fish deeper in the pond or take chances (with the knowledge that of those chances don’t work, they can probably recruit over the kid, who will transfer out and they can recruit someone else).

With that in mind, I think it’s almost impossible for A10 teams to win without transfers - either up or down. .  On Bona, Adaway and Robers came form the MAC and Holmes came from Juco (good transfer plan for them because it tough to sell bcs transfers on olean).  VCU has Stockard from K St and Douglass from Rice.  Umass was starting someone who fled Wichita and when he get hurt, the big guy from AU stepped in. Richmonf’s best guard transferred from Wagner and they have a Tulane transfer on their roster. SLU had Martin Linsson at his third school. I think Davidson is the one exception.

We’ve had good success with Armwood, Cavanaugh, Bishop, Lindo  and transfers up like Mitola and even Steves.  If we are going to become a destination for good players like them, I can live with that - it’s certainly more of a sure thing than consistently out-recruiting BCS and Georgetown (like we did for Freeman and Nixon) or taking chances on projects.


2/28/2021 10:50 pm  #11

Re: I just don’t see the plan

I think feeling rage at Omar Williams says it all about your ability to see things.

As for Chris Monroe, he played on 4 straight losing GW teams, in his 3rd and 4th season, the first two years of Hobbs where the negative nellies said things like "I just don't see the plan Hobbs should be fired"   Those teams went 5-11 in league play and lost 17 games each year.

It takes a few seasons to inject the proper talent to turnaround a team, there's no mystery there, every basketball fan understands that, and crying after the losses doesn't change the reality of it.



3/01/2021 1:09 pm  #12

Re: I just don’t see the plan

As we have pleasant dreams or nightmares about the future of GW basketball, let's factor in that it seems pretty certain we won't have Sloan Seymour or Amir Harris next season. We know Seymour has left the team and because there is no word from GW about him, it would be wise to assume he isn't coming back. (If someone knows different, it would be great know.) Interesting how Seymour struggled at GW. I think we all thought that because JC brought Seymour along with him from Siena that Seymour would be a good fit. Well, it seems so far that JC underestimated Seymour's talent at this level, which isn't a good sign of his ability to judge talent. Of course, here's hoping Seymour returns and gives GW an exceptional three-point specialist. That said, I have to believe it would be a surprise for him to return.

Maybe this season's team should be named Team Turmoil, because having four players walk away  during the season, is not the sign of a cohesive basketball team. As for Harris, from what we know, we would have to believe his injury is such that he won't be able to play next season or if he does, he won't be able to contribute much. 



3/01/2021 1:33 pm  #13

Re: I just don’t see the plan

How do we know Seymour left the team?  Was there a thread on that I missed?  I thought he was either hurt or out due to covid/covid restrictions. 

On Harris, the rumor I’ve heard is that his rehab is ahead of schedule/going well.  No way to say if he’ll have the explosiveness that made him such a weapon before all the injuries, but I’m not ready to rule him out as a possible contributor yet.

To Dr Mike, you could wind up being right, but if we can keep our Big 3 and If Freeman/Nixon/Gapare are as advertised (as I said, they are our most highly regarded recruiting class since probably Joe/Kethan/KevLar), and if we can get one more good transfer, we could actually get good quickly.  Adding just a couple of highly competitive A10 players to this Bishop/Battle/Lindo core would transform our team much more than I think people realize, in part, as I’ve said on this board before, because people here WAY overestimated the talent Mojo brought in/left behind (other than Battle).


3/01/2021 1:39 pm  #14

Re: I just don’t see the plan

Free Quebec:

Coach said Seymour left the team for this year because of Covid concerns and he didn't know if Seymour would be back next year. I agree with your optimism about the future, given our recruits and the likelihood Harris will play next year. (and even if Gapare doesn't) Brayman Freeman looks like the real deal; Noel Brown will improve; and our team will get older and better. That's how you win in the A-10!


3/01/2021 2:01 pm  #15

Re: I just don’t see the plan

That is correct, Free.   Coach mentioned Seymour having left the team to return home during the last chalk talk of the season (prior to the URI game).  I don't recall that Covid was mentioned as the reason but I presume it was.  I asked the coach if he would be returning next season and Coach said words to the effect that they would like to have him back but do not know yet if he will be returning.    I remain guardedly optimistic for next season, but there are many areas which we continue to need work, which will depend highly on coaching.   I do not think we are getting the most out of our players because I do not think they are playing as a cohesive unit.   A case in point...Chase Paar shot 63% from the field last season and had a genuine, nice post game on offense.   This season he is shooting 48.4% from the field and looks like he has developed hands of stone, and his scoring seems to be more opportunistic than by design.  I don't think that Chase is ultimately the answer down low because of his lack of speed and poor defense and lack of body strength, however I think he could have been more valuable to the team than he has shown this season.   As for Seymore, I think the sample size is still too small to draw a conclusion as to whether he is a good fit or not.   The ability to provide an offensive spark off the bench makes him potentially a valuable player; however he needs to be able to expand his game.   Again returning to what Mike Lonergan has repeatedly said and I have previously referenced...if your scoring is off, you have to be able to help the team in other ways, which Sloane has not really shown he can least not yet.     


3/01/2021 2:29 pm  #16

Re: I just don’t see the plan

Love the optimism, but let's first be sure that Battle, Bishop and Lindo are all back next season.  Many questions on the board about whether Battle will return. And for what it's worth, it still seems strange that even when Lindo was eligible, he didn't decide to play and JC essentially admitting that if  he pushed him to play he might quit the program. Lindo then decided to play once he was assured playing time when Jack and Nelson quit the team. Hope he is committed to GW for the future.


3/01/2021 3:50 pm  #17

Re: I just don’t see the plan

Dr Mike wrote:

I predict JC will be the first coach since John Kuester to not qualify for the NCAA or NIT during his tenure.  

Not pick nits, but the last GW coach who did not qualify for the NCAA or NIT was MoJo. (OK, that is picking nits a little bit)


3/01/2021 4:43 pm  #18

Re: I just don’t see the plan

It's hard to judge this season because of the COVID break/circumstances, the injury to Battle and Lindo deciding to play a few weeks after the season started. I think the team could be much improved next season with the strong trio of Bishop, Battle and Lindo, along with a full roster of players providing size and depth. The NCAA has deemed this a "free year" for every player, so we will see way more transfers this year with seniors looking to play elsewhere. I'd expect GW will be able to pick up a decent BCS big man player during the offseason if Moyer decides to turn pro. 

Why do you guys think Battle would want to leave? I'm not sure that he'll get the same opportunities(shots and minutes) elsewhere that he'd get at GW. Bishop and Lindo have already experienced being recruited over and overlooked at BCS schools, I don't think they'd want to go back to that. 

Last edited by Thomas (3/01/2021 5:10 pm)


3/01/2021 4:57 pm  #19

Re: I just don’t see the plan

Looking back, I feel most would agree that this was a season that should not have been played. There would have been no sure way to know that we would have had so many games cancelled but with the benefit of looking back, I don't think we can conclude much bad about the team.  Of course we lost some players to transfer, but we brought in some great players too.  I think next year will be very good, bringing back Jamison, James and Ricky, and hopefully Matt can play one more year. Also we may have Amir back for a season. That would be an excellent core.  But even if Matt and Amir decide not to play, we have a great core with James, Jamison and Ricky.  Add Brayon and maybe Gapare and I feel we will contend a a top tier A10 team.  Also, I would expect JC to continue his great work bringing in a transfer, probably a true big man. Imagine if he could get someone like Zeke!  

I feel the plan is to stick to the plan, and if we do, I feel we have every reason to be optimistic about next season.

P.S.  And I don't think Jamison will want to transfer because he has great teammates and gets a lot of minutes and is viewed by many as a top A10 talent.  I feel if he were going to transfer, he would have gone when Maceo and Jameer left.  I feel GW is on the rise and Jamison doesn't want to  miss out on a great couple of years at Foggy Bottom.  I think by the time he is a Senior, we will be back in the Dance.


3/01/2021 6:05 pm  #20

Re: I just don’t see the plan

Like a lot of things posted here at this point there is absolutely nothing but gossip supporting the fact that Battle wants to leave. 

That said, there is a plan and it will be interesting to review it with those who don't see it about this time next year. Screen shots are always fantastic!



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