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3/08/2021 2:59 pm  #1


A Different Perspective on College Hoops

As the Transfer thread has turned into a "Should JC remain the coach" thread, I'd like to suggest that perhaps the problem isn't the endless stream of players who choose to do what they believe is best for themselves or that a coach should be fired for not being able to retain their players.

I'd like to suggest that the problem is us.

We expect players to follow the 4-year pattern of our days in college.  We expect that when someone signs as a freshman that it reflects poorly on GW (and its coach and administration) when he transfers.  We expect the players to appreciate that GW is a really good school in a really good city and gosh darn it, why would anyone want to leave.

But it is our expectations that need to change.  Even pre-COVID, and pre-discussion of immediate transfer eligibility, transferring among athletes has become the norm and not the exception.  If this were pro basketball, we would think nothing of a players becoming free agents and moving on to whatever is best for them (in their eyes).  

College basketball has, in effect, free agency every year that a players in school.  Players don't sign for 4-years as freshmen.  They sign for one year, renewable at the player's discretion (generally) for up to 4 years (or 5 with a redshirt year).

Yes, I'm a believer in JC (call me crazy), but this is not about JC.  This is about our expectations being unrealistic.  Bash the coach or administration if you wish, when it's about something they realistically control.  Yes, it sucks we lost Battle and Chase, but there will be new players in and new players out every year.

Accept it.

 

3/08/2021 3:12 pm  #2


Re: A Different Perspective on College Hoops

Barry, I wouldn't take the majority of the posts too seriously, to read through the comments on this site, requires realizing a huge % are from the same person, always selling doom and gloom, in various personas, then discussing with "each other" how they are starting to sound alike.

Transfers are indeed a big part of the sport these days, from the GW classes of 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016 combined, we graduated 1 out of 15 players (Yuta)

Battle was a very good recruit by Mojo, keep changing Coaches and you are going to have even more and more transfers




 

 

3/08/2021 3:21 pm  #3


Re: A Different Perspective on College Hoops

Minor quibble but we graduated Justin Williams, Adam Mitola, and Arnaldo Toro from the class of 2016.

I agree with Barry's view though, as crappy as that sounds.  In the past we could watch a group of 5-6 grow from freshman year through senior year.  Looking at teams at the top of the A-10, we should now hope a core of 2-3 make it all four years.  Hopefully JC has one of those in the cards.

Last edited by GW0509 (3/08/2021 3:25 pm)

 

3/08/2021 3:36 pm  #4


Re: A Different Perspective on College Hoops

Well, I meant scholarship recruits.  Toro eventually transferred, but I did forget about Juice! So yeah, technically 3 out 15, with really just 2 staying since the 3rd ended up playing somewhere else



 

 

3/08/2021 4:07 pm  #5


Re: A Different Perspective on College Hoops

BGF, I suspect that most here did not shed many tears when most players transferred away over the past two years.  The possible exceptions are:

Terry Nolan Jr....Did not ever give JC a chance.

Justin M. and Maceo...I think these were more troublesome for when the transfers took place, and in Maceo's case, that it happened in the middle of his senior season

Jameer Jr...You can argue whether JNJ would ever have become a polished point guard under JC's tutelage or not.  The fact is that James's arrival caused JNJ to become disposable.

Chase...Deserves not to be lumped together with some of the lower level ones, but I think most are OK with this.

Jamison...This one is the pill that's hard to swallow.  Since this could not have been over playing time, this really could have been beyond JC's control.  He also could have been very upset over the way that his friend JNJ's situation was handled.  The fact is we'll never know how big a factor if any this was as it's not very likely he would ever discuss this.

These guys were all starters at some point for GW and that differentiates these players from other MoJo recruits.  To be fair about this, we'd need to compare this to the numbers of starters who transfer away from other A10 programs over these past few years.  I could be wrong but I don't recall a ton of guys transferring away from our better programs.  This is important because despite the admittedly more common nature of players transferring, the A10 has always been a conference where players are sold into developing over 4 years.  It's by no means a one-and-done conference and a talent like Obi Toppin is clearly the exception and not the rule.  The result is that the better teams tend to stay together and play together more games than many BCS schools. I believe this roster continuity is what GW needs to strive for.  Turning over an entire roster in less than two full years does not at all sound like the norm for the sport.

 

3/08/2021 4:21 pm  #6


Re: A Different Perspective on College Hoops

Barry, of course the problem is with us.
Every team is dealing with the same issues - COVID, transfers, injuries, etc. GW and JC are not different.
The difference is in how a coach/team deals with the obstacles.
JC has had 2 years to prove what he can do. He will get another 3 years to continue coaching here unless some angel donor falls out of the sky.
We all hope he can start recruiting BCS type players and turn this debacle around. Just because some here think he was the wrong pick for the job to begin with doesn't mean we want him to fail. 
Stop the petty censorship and defending JC. That's what these boards are for - to let fans vent and GW needs to keep the few remaining fans it has.
Whether we keep the remaining players and recruits or lose all of them, JC will be judged by next years wins and losses - not Kenner, not how many stars or who else recruited them.
If JC doesn't turn this thing around next season, or the next, or the 5th after that, the team will be left with few fans and fewer student spectators.
Hopefully he will get it done sooner rather than later and we can go back to discussing more pleasant topics on this GW Basketball site.
 

 

3/08/2021 4:36 pm  #7


Re: A Different Perspective on College Hoops

What matters most Barry, is WHO is transferring.

Battle is a big loss since he will invariably transfer UP. Chase, will go down, like most GW transfers, Goss, Cimino, Darian Bryant, Nick Griffin etc.   

Battle is in the Kethan Savage, Lasan Kromah category, this one clearly hurts, but that's the risk you take when you keep changing Head Coaches. 

 It was mentioned elsewhere "ML left" there's a big difference between "leaving" (Hurley left Rhode Island for UCONN, Jarvis left GW for St. Johns, Shaka left VCU for Texas) and being fired for abuse.  the latter is a lot harder to recover from, and we're still feeling the wake of that in some ways.  Battle was after all Mojo's recruit, Mojo an assistant of ML promoted after the HC was fired weeks before the season was to begin.  What we need is continuity and JC needs to prove he's the man who will provide it.  big offseason for him, a few chances here to upgrade the team


 

Last edited by The Dude (3/08/2021 4:38 pm)

 

3/08/2021 4:39 pm  #8


Re: A Different Perspective on College Hoops

What I think is being missed here first and foremost is that while we all care most about GW, this is not just a GW problem. Again, watch the tsunami of transfers that is coming. 

The problem for GW is that this trend towards free agency is coming at a time when we are trying to build a program which is the point in which a program is most vulnerable to losing the lesser amount of talent that it has.

However, it can also work for us if JC can use it to his advantage and possibly pick up players that we never could have initially gotten at GW. If you really think about it, ML was helped immensely by transfers from Power 5 schools - Armwood, Creek and Cavanaugh. That model could work again for us.  

 

3/08/2021 5:50 pm  #9


Re: A Different Perspective on College Hoops

GWRising, I think what you're not understanding is that despite the fact that there are more transfers today than ever before, it is very rare to say the least to turn over an entire roster in two years.

Here's one way to look at this...we had a total of 16 players on our roster this season.  Maceo, JNJ, Ace, Chase and Jamison all either transferred, are transferring, or left the team before season's end.  Of the remaining 11, Moyer and Leftwich are grad students who could come back, Sloan has been rumored to transfer and Amir's situation is entirely health-related.  So, let's say that Maceo, JNJ, Chase and Jamison make 4 transfers and we'll see about Sloan and anyone else.  Then let's exclude graduating seniors/grad students at other A10 schools and see how many players transfer out of their programs before next season, and evaluate whether these losses are as impactful as Battle/Nelson/Paar/Jack.

But again, I am more concerned with coaching the players who are here than anything else.   

 

3/08/2021 5:54 pm  #10


Re: A Different Perspective on College Hoops

Of course it us. Fans are nuts and GW was bound to get hammered by transfers soon. Besides if losing has anything to do with the recent decisions it stands to reason any player would want to win MORE than GW has. If they were my nephews I'd say this is your chance to maximize what you want out of basketball.

Maybe GW was good, fair and true blue to these guys. However college basketball treats the players like meat. They were on campus all year during a pandemic (to keep a $7B contract for the NCAA afloat) that was deemed too dangerous for their fellow non athlete students. Let that sink in. I say its really fucked up.
So as a fan I'm sad. But in terms of justice transferring is THE BEST LEVERAGE the players have. Good Luck Fellas!!

 

3/08/2021 6:25 pm  #11


Re: A Different Perspective on College Hoops

Now everyone is mocking our program on Twitter.
Jameer Nelson, ML, coaching changes.
GW has some work to do the next 7 months. I really don't care about statements promising to do better, etc. Nobody wants to have another year like the last 2. JC, go out and get some players (and some quality assistants).

 

3/08/2021 6:30 pm  #12


Re: A Different Perspective on College Hoops

Gwmayhem wrote:

GWRising, I think what you're not understanding is that despite the fact that there are more transfers today than ever before, it is very rare to say the least to turn over an entire roster in two years.

Here's one way to look at this...we had a total of 16 players on our roster this season.  Maceo, JNJ, Ace, Chase and Jamison all either transferred, are transferring, or left the team before season's end.  Of the remaining 11, Moyer and Leftwich are grad students who could come back, Sloan has been rumored to transfer and Amir's situation is entirely health-related.  So, let's say that Maceo, JNJ, Chase and Jamison make 4 transfers and we'll see about Sloan and anyone else.  Then let's exclude graduating seniors/grad students at other A10 schools and see how many players transfer out of their programs before next season, and evaluate whether these losses are as impactful as Battle/Nelson/Paar/Jack.

But again, I am more concerned with coaching the players who are here than anything else.   

Well Joe Dooley changed over 11 guys in one year at ECU. I could name other huge roster overhauls. Go look at the transfer list current approaching 300 at we haven't even got to the conference championships for the most part. There are many schools already with multiple transfers including in the A-10: La Salle, St. Bonaventure are two examples.
 

 

3/08/2021 6:33 pm  #13


Re: A Different Perspective on College Hoops

Joel Joseph wrote:

Now everyone is mocking our program on Twitter.
Jameer Nelson, ML, coaching changes.
GW has some work to do the next 7 months. I really don't care about statements promising to do better, etc. Nobody wants to have another year like the last 2. JC, go out and get some players (and some quality assistants).

Jameer Nelson is not mocking our program ... you took 2+2 and got 9.
ML is no longer the coach and is justifiably bitter about what happened to him ... so doubt he will have anything good to say.
Coaching Changes are a bunch of clowns with a Twitter account. No one takes them seriously except themselves. You forget they were the ones who exaggerated the whole ML story.

You really that insecure to worry about what is said on the cesspool of Twitter.

Last edited by GWRising (3/08/2021 6:38 pm)

 

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