Posted by GW Alum Abroad  1/02/2024 2:04 pm | #1 |
We are now a season and a half in to the Caputo Era and while it is too early to start to evaluate his job performance, it might be time to look at if the coaching change was a good move. The 11-2 OOC record this season is certainly gaudy and Bishop has developed as a player. But, would this team have been worse and in a worse financial position if Jamion was still at the helm?
A loaded and hypothetical question, for sure, but I am not sure there is an obvious answer one way or the other. Was Vogel to quick to pull the plug on her initial hire or has she scored here? Was this a step up, or sideways?
Sure, 10 A10 wins last year and 11 non-conf wins this season are eye-popping. But so too is struggling at home to UMES (and Alcorn St and others) while being so poor on a national level in terms of turnovers and opponents’ shooting percentage.
I realize many here are all-in on Caputo, and on the surface he has won many over. I am not unhappy with the winning percentage so far (and very happy with the 100% graduation advancement rate), but perhaps some can help convince me that this was a good change.
|
Posted by GWAlum2001 1/02/2024 3:48 pm | #2 |
Good thread GWAA. For me yes, I am admittedly biased as I had hoped we hired CC when we hired Jamion. There are really three profiles for GW coaches: 1) low-major head coaches on the rise (Jamion, Lonergan), 2) Experienced head coaches on their retirement tour (Penders), 3) Assistants at high majors (Hobbs, CC). I have only been following the team since 1995 but I tend to prefer #3.
I tend to evaluate coaches in three categories: 1) Coaching / player development, 2) Recruiting, 3) Brand building (this includes media presence / on campus outreach / alumni relationships). For number 1 I think it is safe to say the jury is still out for me. Bishop has gotten better, Adams made a huge jump last year etc but the sample size is still pretty small. I thought Lonergan was a pretty masterful in game tactician, Jamion seemed flawed there and CC is probably somewhere in between. For number 2, the recruiting playbook for GW is well established. Get a few local kids (either out of high school or returning home via transfer) and international players. CC seems to understand this and obviously knows how to work the portal as well. He also seems to understand how to sell the strengths of GW, which is important because there are many weaknesses when compared to schools we are competing with for talent. Also, since I have been a season ticket holder, the first recruiting class of a new coach tends to be absolutely critical. Hobbs (Hall, Pops, Omar, Kireev) and Lonergan (Larsen, Garino, McDonald, Savage) obviously hit with their first classes. Christian less so (Ball, Brelsford, Brown but he does deserve credit for Bishop of course). CC seems to have hit with his first full recruiting class (Jacoi, Autry, Johnson, Buchanan, Benny) and we will see what happens with Jones and Zam. In this era who knows who stays. For number 3, CC seems to be an upgrade as well at least on the alumni relations front. He is working our most wealthy alumni hard to fund things like the NIL, practice facility, etc.
All in all, change is good. CC is not perfect, but I think he is a good fit for GW.
|
Posted by Gwmayhem 1/02/2024 4:58 pm | #3 |
Was it a fair move? Probably not. Was it a good move as in an upgrade? I have little question that it was.
Unfair because Jamion was absolutely entitled to another season since he had 2 years remaining on his contract and he guided the team competitively in the A10 if not in the OOC. But this is where the argument ends for Jamion.
First, I really believe that Jamion got this job because of two nights where he led his MSM and Siena teams to victories in the A10. He very much fit the profile of a young up and comer who did not require to be paid along the lines of the top half of coaches in the A10. But practically from the onset, I believe he might have been in over his head. A few things stood out. First, he badly miscalculated, initially, on the caliber of player he would need to succeed at GW. He inherited Battle and caught a huge break when Martelli was fired and Jameer Jr became available. Beyond this, he brought Sloan Seymour with him from Siena and felt that Siena recruits like Shawn Walker Jr, Lincoln Ball and Tyler Brelsford (who was the best of these three but hasn't exactly thrived elsewhere) would be good enough to win with at GW. He was already inheriting a talent-deficient roster and proceeded to make things worse on himself. He began to right the ship by going into the transfer portal and bringing in talented players like JBIV, Ricky, Brendan, Brayon and Joe Bamisile. This is also why it was a bit unfair to sever ties with him when they did...from a talent perspective, things were starting to look up.Compare this to CC who spent a long time at Mason, a long time at Miami, and who understood from Day 1 the level of talent that would be needed.
Now, let's add to this all of the other things that CC seemed to "get" from Day 1. How to sell the city as part of his recruiting pitch. How to focus on DMV talent. How to capitalize on the importance of international talent from both a historical perspective and a practical one (since international players are ineligible to receive NIL funds). Even if NIL is too recent a development, the fact is that Jamion showed little interest outside of a certain player in New Zealand for the most part to attempt to attract foreign born players.
Then there's the outreach towards students and student groups. The lobbying for things like building a new practice facility and chartering flights to road games. The role he is taking in helping to raise funds for his program and for his players. I comprehend that JC was here during Covid...nobody was approving the building of a practice facility during those years. However, would Jamion have tried hard to make things like this happen? Would that be considered part of his DNA? While I can't answer this definitively, what I can say is that these things are definitely part of CC's DNA. CC strikes me as a driven guy who gets things done. Jamion struck me as a candidate for Mayor or a motivational speaker.
Lastly, there's the matter of coaching. maybe this is just an optics thing but CC looks like he's actually doing it (coaching). There were many discussions here about how Jamion never looked like he was calling any plays. And on his coach's show, Jamion went to his blackboard and showed how one play could have hundreds of derivatives and that his coaching manual was like 1,000 pages, or something to this effect. It was honestly a ridiculous segment given how he rarely looked as if he was doing much by way of coaching the team.
|
Posted by Joel Joseph 1/02/2024 5:14 pm | #4 |
Reading this thread makes me miss the years of 2016 and prior even more. Hard to believe it's been 8 long years with the dumpster fire still simmering.
Before we declare this miserable saga over, let's see how this year progresses. Winning 10 A-10 games in a weak conference last year say's nothing. Winning 11 OOC games with our pathetic schedule this year say's nothing. The conference is still weak this year (based on A-10 recent history) but at least we can comparer ourselves to comparable teams rather than the Alcorn St and UMES teams we scheduled this year.
On a side note, the coach at Siena is struggling now that everyone JC brought there is gone. Reminds me of Mojo. I was very happy that our program hired CC instead of Carm.
|
Posted by GW0509 1/02/2024 7:55 pm | #5 |
Gwmayhem wrote:
Was it a fair move? Probably not. Was it a good move as in an upgrade? I have little question that it was.
Unfair because Jamion was absolutely entitled to another season since he had 2 years remaining on his contract and he guided the team competitively in the A10 if not in the OOC. But this is where the argument ends for Jamion.
Agree with the rest of your post. Just wanted to add another unfair aspect was that one of his three years was the COVID year where either due to sickness on our own team, sickness on the other team, or an insurrection at the Capitol, our schedule was completely upended.
Also let’s not forget that JC had bad injury luck. His second year, I don't think we ever got Bishop, Battle, Moyer, and Lindo on the court at the same time. His third year we lost Ira Lee before he could play a game.
Again, I agree that all other aspects of his tenure necessitated a change, but if I were JC a part of me would think I was cursed.
|
Posted by FredD 1/03/2024 8:12 am | #6 |
Reading this thread makes me miss the years of 2016 and prior even more. Hard to believe it's been 8 long years with the dumpster fire still simmering.
Before we declare this miserable saga over, let's see how this year progresses. Winning 10 A-10 games in a weak conference last year say's nothing. Winning 11 OOC games with our pathetic schedule this year say's nothing. The conference is still weak this year (based on A-10 recent history) but at least we can comparer ourselves to comparable teams rather than the Alcorn St and UMES teams we scheduled this year.
On a side note, the coach at Siena is struggling now that everyone JC brought there is gone. Reminds me of Mojo. I was very happy that our program hired CC instead of Carm.
EVERY DAY it was the right move! Last year was a team of mostly inherited players, right? They were so much more organized on the court. The players seemed more energized, engaged and happy to be playing for each other. (I’m confident that CC would have created a better role for Jameel.)
Agreed that in a pre-NIL, wild Wild West transfer environment another year for Jamison would have been justifiable. However, full marks to Tonya for breaking with GW’s too slow to act past.
Still having followed this team since 1980 I’d be an idiot not to agree that the proof will be in how the conference season plays out.
Here’s the difference for this fan. For the first time since 2016 I’m actually a little excited, nervous for the first conference game.
|
Posted by moneybox 1/03/2024 9:47 am | #7 |
The change was absolutely necessary! Jamion was very poor at making in-game adjustments and that cost us a lot of games. An example: GW at Mason in his last year. GW had a 13 point lead in the second half and lost the game because of a lack of adjustments and other things. Conversely, Caputo coached a team with no bench to a winning record in the league and .500 overall. This season, with two players from last year with any real playing time and all the rest new the team, we are, admittedly against a weak OOC schedule, 11-2. Their is much talent on this team and over time they will get better. I'm in amazement that you even brought the Jamion--Caputo issue up!
|
Posted by Alum1 1/03/2024 10:21 am | #8 |
It was the right move and made at the right time, and it took guts for her to make it. The program was not going to have a chance to reach its potential without the change being made JC was a really good guy, a decent human you want to root for in life, not just hoops. He probably would have recruited “ok,” but where he was really lacking was when he got on the sidelines. There was an obvious failure at in-game decision making and making adjustments. Too many times it looked like he grabbed five guys off the streets and they were playing together for the first time. If you give him another year, you basically set the program back by a multiple of three. I give TV big props for managing to where the program needed to be in the current time frame to stay relevant . There was a cliff coming amd she recognized it. So good for her.
I’ve been nothing but pleased with CC. His energy, his smarts, his recruiting and his ability to promote internally amd externally. It was a change we needed after our journey into the Gulf of Failure. He deserves a couple more years to prove his thesis - both in recruiting and scheduling. He seems to have the head coaching chops, but what do I know. We will soon see if his scheduling philosophy works for an A-10 team, and he will be helped by what seems to be a somewhat improved A-10 , but it’s not the ACC, and counting on your conference schedule to compensate for a ridiculous and OOC to bulk up your NET? Jury’s out for me.
We will also see how he handles adversity. He hasn’t really had to deal with that yet, and at some point the honeymoon is over and you get judged differently. Time will tell if the Max situation others have alluded to traverses from rumor to reality, but that would be a test. He will need to balance showing he’s in charge without letting it become a wider issue. There are also red flags with how the team seems to be progressing. To me it hasn’t. And that’s something to keep an eye on in my view. Do the parts he envisioned coming together work? Those are the kinds of things people will start looking to in evaluating his performance.
Last edited by Alum1 (1/03/2024 10:35 am)
|
Posted by Gwmayhem 1/03/2024 12:03 pm | #9 |
Alum1, I don't believe our schedule was designed to build up our own NET as much as it was to: a) help build the conference ratings and b) acclimate a largely new team to the world of college basketball. Any reference to GW's own NET, KenPom, etc. carries the implication that GW could be an at large candidate. Unless we go 14-4 or better in the conference, I'd say there's just no shot at this. At 13-5, we finish 24-7 headed into the A10 tournament and I'm not convinced that even a loss in the A10 championship game would get GW in given the OOC schedule. That would be something..finishing 26-8 and not receiving an at large bid.
So, let's go 14-4 so we may see what ends up happening. 
|
Posted by GW0509 1/03/2024 12:49 pm | #10 |
We will soon see if his scheduling philosophy works for an A-10 team, and he will be helped by what seems to be a somewhat improved A-10 , but it’s not the ACC, and counting on your conference schedule to compensate for a ridiculous and OOC to bulk up your NET? Jury’s out for me.
Last year Fordham's OOC strength of schedule was DFL and they went 12-6 and got a double-bye. Just sayin'!
Last edited by GW0509 (1/03/2024 12:52 pm)
|
Posted by Gwmayhem 1/03/2024 12:53 pm | #11 |
Alum1, I don't believe our schedule was designed to build up our own NET as much as it was to: a) help build the conference ratings and b) acclimate a largely new team to the world of college basketball. Any reference to GW's own NET, KenPom, etc. carries the implication that GW could be an at large candidate. Unless we go 14-4 or better in the conference, I'd say there's just no shot at this. At 13-5, we finish 24-7 headed into the A10 tournament and I'm not convinced that even a loss in the A10 championship game would get GW in given the OOC schedule. That would be something..finishing 26-8 and not receiving an at large bid.
So, let's go 14-4 so we may see what ends up happening.
Last year Fordham's OOC strength of schedule was DFL and they went 12-6 and got a double-bye. Just sayin'!
I'm referring to receiving an at large bid to the NCAA tournament. There's not much point to be overly concerned with GW's NET ranking unless this is within the context of receiving an at large bid.
|
Posted by Alum1 1/03/2024 12:58 pm | #12 |
I’m in for 14-4 too. 😂😂
I wasn’t speculating about CC’s scheduling philosophy. He has stated it several times, including before he coached his first game here. It has nothing to do with helping this year’s young team get better. He has said from the start he would take every buy game against an inferior opponent that the administration would give him to get as good a winning percentage as possible going into league, and he thought the rest of the league should do the same. My only disagreement/skepticism with that is that in the ACC you go on to play solid team a day in and day out, and that’s not the case in the A10.
That said, it does look like other A10 schools seemed to have listened (to him?} and the conferce’s overall W-L record improved along with it’s ranking among leagues, even if only slightly. We will see what impact this all has as the year plays out and whether it leads to the league having a more reasonable shot at more than one bid. But make no mistake, this was his philosophy coming in, and we should expect this kind of OOC every year. I hope that the likely scenario plays out that he is much smarter than yours truly.
Last edited by Alum1 (1/03/2024 1:29 pm)
|
Posted by creeksandzeeks 1/03/2024 2:01 pm | #13 |
Until this new practice facility gets built, and until GW has a collective that can scrape together six figures for elite talent when opportunity strikes, I think that we need to recalibrate expectations for the foreseeable future.
Each of our most successful past coaches over the last 30 years had a unique ability to do a certain something that helped them punch well above their weight class. Mike Jarvis was on the leading edge of recruiting foreign talent. Karl Hobbs (with Steve Pikiell and Darrell Brooks in particular) was able to polish diamonds in the rough when the A-10 was on a downswing. Mike Lonergan kept a great class at home, leveraged our history as a good home for foreign talent, and was able to promise guys like Cavanaugh, Creek and Armwood that he could Coach them up to elite professional levels despite taking a "step down" in conference. More importantly, they were all able to promise guys the ability to play in DC and a pretty raucous gym when things were rolling.
Now, I'm not sure how many guys are thinking in four-year increments, and now that the payments are above the table, there are fewer players thinking about their "college experience." Coach Caputo ticks off all the intangible boxes: he has the local and regional experience, he's an entertaining interview on radio and TV, and he seems to work relentlessly.
But I think the money talks now louder than ever, and I think we need to tailor our expectations and evaluations accordingly.
|
Posted by FredD 1/03/2024 2:09 pm | #14 |
Until this new practice facility gets built, and until GW has a collective that can scrape together six figures for elite talent when opportunity strikes, I think that we need to recalibrate expectations for the foreseeable future.
Each of our most successful past coaches over the last 30 years had a unique ability to do a certain something that helped them punch well above their weight class. Mike Jarvis was on the leading edge of recruiting foreign talent. Karl Hobbs (with Steve Pikiell and Darrell Brooks in particular) was able to polish diamonds in the rough when the A-10 was on a downswing. Mike Lonergan kept a great class at home, leveraged our history as a good home for foreign talent, and was able to promise guys like Cavanaugh, Creek and Armwood that he could Coach them up to elite professional levels despite taking a "step down" in conference. More importantly, they were all able to promise guys the ability to play in DC and a pretty raucous gym when things were rolling.
Now, I'm not sure how many guys are thinking in four-year increments, and now that the payments are above the table, there are fewer players thinking about their "college experience." Coach Caputo ticks off all the intangible boxes: he has the local and regional experience, he's an entertaining interview on radio and TV, and he seems to work relentlessly.
But I think the money talks now louder than ever, and I think we need to tailor our expectations and evaluations accordingly.
Sadly 100%
|
Posted by DC Native 1/03/2024 4:19 pm | #15 |
I think the right call was made. I think the first step for improvement for a school like GW is to beat the teams that we are supposed to beat (i.e., teams from lesser conferences). This shows the coach is bringing in adequate talent and knows how to coach them to maximize their talents. I went through past results on ESPN.com and looked for losses against teams from lesser conferences. It shows pretty clearly that since 2002 (the farthest the data goes back), GW has had two good runs. The first was a three year stretch under Hobbs from 2004 to 2007, and the second was a four year stretch under Lonergan and Joseph (coaching Lonergan recruits) from 2013 to 2017. This is not a perfect exercise, as we played more or less low majors in certain years, but I think everyone can agree that those are the years we look at as being successful and want to get back to. CC is ahead of schedule based on this, not losing to any low majors in his second year, unlike Hobbs and Lonergan, who didn't do it until their third and fourth years, respectively. JC showed no progress in this regard through his three years at GW.
Caputo
23-24: 0
22-23: 4 (UC San Diego, Radford, American, Seattle)
JC
21-22: 5 (UC San Diego, Cal State Fullerton, UMass Lowell, Kent State, Boston)
20-21: 5 (Navy, Hampton, UMBC, Delaware, William & Mary)
19-20: 6 (Towson, American, Morgan State, Kansas City, Harvard, Vermont)
Joseph
18-19: 5 (Stony Brook, Siena, Vermont, Princeton, Harvard)
17-18: 1 (Rider)
16-17: 0
Lonergan
15-16: 0
14-15: 0
13-14: 0
12-13: 2 (Youngstown State, Mt. St. Mary's)
11-12: 2 (Loyola MD, James Madison)
Hobbs
10-11: 5 (Boston, Hampton, UNC Wilmington, George Mason, Navy, Harvard)
09-10: 1 (Harvard)
08-09: 5 (Vermont, Hawai'i, Coppin State, Longwood, Richmond)
07-08: 2 (UMBC, Binghamton)
06-07: 0
05-06: 0
04-05: 0
03-04: 3 (Appalachian State, Old Dominion, Fairfield)
02-03: 2 (Old Dominion, American)
01-02: ?
Last edited by DC Native (1/03/2024 4:19 pm)
