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3/10/2022 9:18 pm  #1


So Where Do We Go From Here?

Figured we needed a place to discuss where we are, where we've been, and what work still needs to be done.

I will kick things off with two musts:

1. Retain Bishop, Bamisile, and Freeman. Duh.
2. Get an A-10 average big.  We went 8-2 this season when we got a measly 3 made FGs from Hunter Dean.  Do we threaten a 5 seed if we had say Clifton Moore from La Salle on our team?  We got more offensive production from a senior year John Kopriva than we did from Dean this season.

I hate to sound like it's just that easy....but it kinda feels like it's that easy?

 

3/10/2022 9:49 pm  #2


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

I think we're a 5 seed (2-3 more wins) with Ira Lee

And yes, the Frontcourt needs dramatic upgrade because we top of league backcourt talent.

Freeman got better and better as the year progressed.  He's a foundational piece

 

3/10/2022 9:52 pm  #3


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

I think you hit the nail on the head.

1: Keep the core three players
2. Bring in 2 bigs (PF and C) who can start right away who are decent rebounders, average defenders, and have some sort of post game since we had none of that this season. I don't think that's asking too much
3. Bring in another guy who can play the 3-4 for depth

 

3/10/2022 10:09 pm  #4


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

Get a new coach.

 

3/10/2022 11:12 pm  #5


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

I agree wholeheartedly that we need to keep the triple B's (Bamisile, Bishop, and Brayon?), but I think this team is much further away from a 5 seed than many of us wish or may think.

Let's look at our conference schedule, something that is giving many of us hope. We went 8-9 and finished 7th in the league (sounds great right???). But that didn't include a single win against the 6 teams above us. Not only that, but other than the Davidson and Richmond games, none of these were remotely close. Now let's look at our last four games of the season. We went 1-3 against the bottom half of our league and the one win was almost a loss against the truly pitiful Duquesne. And now, we were just beat in back to back games by Fordham and UMass, two teams we barely beat earlier in the year. 

Now sure, UMass could be a completely different team next year as Matt McCall is gone. But Fordham the bellwether of futility this past decade may have truly found something in their new coach. In both games we played against Fordham this year (going 1-1 against them) I felt we were out-coached. Give him a year to bring in his own players, and Fordham could be dangerous (or at least more than they have been). George Mason is another good example. Their new coach may prove to be an even better recruiter than JC (only time will tell). So while I see a lot of teams that could move up, I am hesitant to believe we will as well. Plus I don't see Dayton, Davidson, VCU, or SLU going anywhere and that's nothing to say of Loyola (yikes)!

Now, sure, bringing in two stud PF or C would probably move the needle a bit, I'm not sure it would be enough to break into the top half. But hey, I'd love to be wrong. 

 

3/11/2022 1:35 am  #6


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

1) Learn to communicate as a team on defense. Don't let the guards beat us off the bounce. Draw more charges on that end. Rotate better when other teams move the ball. Force the opposition to take more midrange shots instead of easy layups. We likely need to spend most of the open scholarships on forwards as we have like no wings at this point.

2) Take better shots. We moved the ball better the second half of the year (and finally got to the line a bit more at the end of the season) but that needs to continue to improve. There need to be more possessions with 5+ passes passing around the horn for an open shot. Avoid stupid turnovers like throwing the ball away.

3) Be more balanced on offense. Have the post guy take more shots and put less pressure on the guards.

4) Add more depth. That's the case every year (and we likely overrate the second half of the roster every offseason) but this year's bench was not much better than the previous two years (it may have been worse).

5) Be better rebounding the ball on both ends. Not much more needs to be said there as we were far and away the worst overall in rebounding in the A10.

6) Win the free throw/foul battle. We can blame the refs but we need to be more aggressive on offense and be in better positioning defensively. It felt like we always had 2-3x the number of fouls as the other team, especially before halftime.

Benchmarks for next year:
7) Go over .500 OOC.
8) Win 10 games in A10.
9) Finish as a top 125-150 KenPom team. That would require a 75-100 spot jump from this year which does feel a bit out of reach as of now but adding key pieces to the frontcourt may change that.
 

 

3/11/2022 6:21 am  #7


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

1) Get a competent AD
2) Have that person conduct a search for a new coach
In other words, back to 2016. Nothing gained in 6 years.

 

3/11/2022 6:59 am  #8


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

Maybe the is a little nick-picky, but I believe it is a microcosm of coaching (or lack thereof) style.  

With a few minutes left in the game, Joe B lost the ball on a drive and there was a review by the refs to see who knocked it out of bounds.  McCall, who was leading by appx 11 points and already fired, called his players over to a quick huddle, and they all sprinted(!) to him.  They sprinted!!  The GW reaction to this official timeout?  The players were alone by on the court, not talking to each other and JC was alone on the sidelines, got a cup of water, and leaned against the scoring table.  

Quite a contrast.

 

3/11/2022 8:13 am  #9


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

I’m with the bandit. The A10 was not very good. And the teams that were good, GW couldn’t beat. The teams that were bad, GW beat sometimes. And GW stunk in OOC. There are some signs the team is better than I thought (bottom 3), but that’s mostly because the A10 was not good. As I have said plenty, I just don’t see a developmental path for this team. It may exist. I just don’t see it. Get a big guy! Get two! Then we finish in the top 6 next year in the A10, dong make a tourney, and then we lose Adams and bishop.

Here’s hoping we get some good transfers.

 

3/11/2022 8:17 am  #10


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

Noticed that also.
Not the first time the other team was huddled and instructed and we weren't.

 

3/11/2022 8:41 am  #11


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

I think danjsport says it best.There is no developmental path for this team.It looks like most years will 
be a patchwork of pieces.I understand that a lot of other teams are in the same quandary-so coaching 
becomes even more important I believe.Incremental success will be episodic.Some years better than others-
but very difficult to maintain consistency.I’ve been a fan a long time so I should have learned a long time ago
that the team-in most years -will disappoint-but I like all of you wish our boys-young men-nothing but the best.

 

3/11/2022 8:53 am  #12


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

Maybe wrong,but our nine or whatever number transfers are, was said to be one of the top transfers heavy teams in the country.
Since we aren't growing any freshmen, except for Brayon,we are more susceptible to these swings.
By design.

 

3/11/2022 9:44 am  #13


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

I'm with Mentz.  The only hope is that they bring in a top flight x&o guy as assistant head coach and JC focuses on cheerleading and media appearances.  

Otherwise, FQ laid out the timeline a few months ago: one more year of under-performance, a house cleaning, and then 2-3 years for new coach to (hopefully) turn things around.

Last edited by BM (3/11/2022 10:13 am)

 

3/11/2022 10:08 am  #14


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

"now that all of the children have grown up..."Thank you, I'm here all week.

First, allow me to address the frustration.  The collective despair, I believe, is largely due to the six year period in which this rebuild has been under way.  It's only natural to feel terrible over the fact that this is where this program is six full years later.  Well, this is what happens when you essentially waste three of these years.  OK, let's call it two since it's hard to fault anyone for not finding the right coach when you start looking in September.  So, MoJo is the interim in Year 1 while a national search takes place.  No offense to MoJo who is a very affable guy but he wasn't ready.  There's no crime in that and there's no crime saying that. 

Of course, not only does a national search not take place but MoJo gets extended, presumably based on taking the former coach's players and reaching the Cash Buy-In Tournament.  This brings us to Year 4 and Jamion is brought in, I'm convinced based largely on: a) he beat Lonergan while at MSM, b) he beat MoJo while at Siena, and c) he crushed it during the interview.  Year 4 means trying to make things work largely with MoJo recruits and others who JC wanted to play for him at MSM and Siena.  Ironically, JC had a star at Siena, Jalen Pickett, who is having a great year at Penn State.  He was the one guy who we really needed him to bring at the time. As for the rest, the Shawn Walkers and the Lincoln Balls and the Tyler Brelsfords, my conclusion is that JC badly underestimated the requisite talent level a coach needs to succeed at the A10 level.  While he has since come to understand this, that miscalculation also set us back a ways. 

So what I saw in 2020-21 was the first major effort to upgrade the talent of this roster.  James Bishop was a huge upgrade.  Ricky Lindo was as well though he only competed in a handful of games.  Matt Moyer was more of a risk given his history with injuries but one worth taking given GW's then-standing in the college basketball world.  This continued in 2021-22 with the additions of Joe Bamisile, Brendan Adams, Brayon Freeman, and though we never got to see him play, Ira Lee.

As we all should know, it is near-impossible to completely overhaul a roster on the fly like this.  While the overall abilities within our backcourt and wings substantially increased, the frontcourt left the team highly vulnerable during most games.  I have a number of critical things to say about JC (my UMASS game summary is up next) but faulting him for not turning this program into the one we all want to see "by now" is not one of them.  I think there is a plan and the next part of the plan, in addition to retaining the key eligible cogs from this season, is to bolster the frontcourt.  This might be easier said than done but this has to be JC's top priority.  Ideally, he will make the right choices among both high school players (Jabari West might be a start) but to find a true rim protector who can play right away, he will need to find a suitable transfer.  Perhaps he should be looking at bigs who played on teams with backcourt deficiencies and ask them to imagine playing on a team with Brayon, James and Joe.

Lastly, there is the matter of coaching.  Last night was not the first time we watched an opposing coach (an already fired one at that) devise a game plan that we not only did not have any answers for but where we seemingly made very little effort to change things up or try attacking or defending a different way.  There is a large middle ground between being an overly stringent coach who feels the need to micromanage every possession and one who is all about providing his players with complete freedom with very little structure.  We all know which camp JC appears to be in and I think he will need to commit to moving a few steps away from where he's been.  There is a fine line between wanting your players to figure things out on their own as opposed to helping them figure things out.  The teams that can generally figure things out are more veteran, experienced teams.  They are also more mature teams.  As a group, the 2021-22 Colonials were not veteran enough, experienced enough, or mature enough.  

 

3/11/2022 11:28 am  #15


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

They got boat raced. They played like a bunch guys who wanted their coach fired or wanted to transfer.

More importantly it's clear to me. that GW wants a men's team, not a men's program. A great swim team is just as good as a great men's basketball  team. And there is not a chance they won't let any head coach complete his contract. No one will be paid not to coach.

Some of this makes sense bc the pandemic was so disruptive. I don’t think anything REALLY changes until fresh eyes are hired starting with the AD. My inference is that TV understands where the priorities are and is willing to work under the limitations given. So I don’t she is a villain at all. She’s doing the job GW wants and that’s what hurts.

 

3/11/2022 12:04 pm  #16


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

BM wrote:

I'm with Mentz.  The only hope is that they bring in a top flight x&o guy as assistant head coach and JC focuses on cheerleading and media appearances.  

Otherwise, FQ laid out the timeline a few months ago: one more year of under-performance, a house cleaning, and then 2-3 years for new coach to (hopefully) turn things around.

Depressing but accurate.  I think Vegas odds would be very low on JC still being the coach two years from now. For those who think it’s two years, it’s not.   You can’t have a coach on an expiring contract because they won’t be able to recruit - it’s why coaches are usually fired with one year left or extended before that final year. 


As for hiring an experienced X&O coach, I would settle for any coach who excels at reaching guards how to keep their man in front of them. 

One of the hallmarks of both the MoJo era and the JC era has been that out guards can’t stop anyone from driving.  Yesterday in the tourney, we watched UMASS score on straight line drive after straight line drive, and that’s been a problem for all of JC’s years.  It’s also a problem because it forces help, which either opens up bigs for a dunk or leaves Simeon open for a putback. If we had a coach who could teach guys to keep their man from beating them off the dribble (better yet, to pressure the ball and still keep their man in front of them the way Carl Elliot and Pinnock did), that would solve a lot of our defensive problems.


So I would say that to make real progress, we not only need two high level front court players, but an assistant coach who can teach guards to play defense.

 

3/11/2022 12:17 pm  #17


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

Buff&BlueBandit wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly that we need to keep the triple B's (Bamisile, Bishop, and Brayon?), but I think this team is much further away from a 5 seed than many of us wish or may think.

Let's look at our conference schedule, something that is giving many of us hope. We went 8-9 and finished 7th in the league (sounds great right???). But that didn't include a single win against the 6 teams above us. Not only that, but other than the Davidson and Richmond games, none of these were remotely close. Now let's look at our last four games of the season. We went 1-3 against the bottom half of our league and the one win was almost a loss against the truly pitiful Duquesne. And now, we were just beat in back to back games by Fordham and UMass, two teams we barely beat earlier in the year. 

Now sure, UMass could be a completely different team next year as Matt McCall is gone. But Fordham the bellwether of futility this past decade may have truly found something in their new coach. In both games we played against Fordham this year (going 1-1 against them) I felt we were out-coached. Give him a year to bring in his own players, and Fordham could be dangerous (or at least more than they have been). George Mason is another good example. Their new coach may prove to be an even better recruiter than JC (only time will tell). So while I see a lot of teams that could move up, I am hesitant to believe we will as well. Plus I don't see Dayton, Davidson, VCU, or SLU going anywhere and that's nothing to say of Loyola (yikes)!

Now, sure, bringing in two stud PF or C would probably move the needle a bit, I'm not sure it would be enough to break into the top half. But hey, I'd love to be wrong. 

Sadly I agree with this.  The 8-9 record in the league (or more accurately (8-4 vs the bottom of the league, including the tourney) masks a lot of problems. We won games on the sheer strength of Joe Bam, Bishop, and Freeman’s one on one ability - but no opponent thinks or as a well coached team.  We aren’t physical, we don’t move the ball well, we aren’t always aggressive for loose balls or on the boards, we get beat off the drive easily.   

Think of it this way - we went 4-0 in games decided by 2 points, 1 point, or in OT.  If two of those went against us (like if twice and opponent shot goes in instead of out), then we’d have finished 6-11 and in that case would anyone really think we are close? I realize we did win, and that’s a good thing, but games that close do tend to even out over time.

A better measure of our level is the fact we are currently ranked 227 in KenPom.  If you want to say we were better in conference, we were #10 in net efficiency in conference games.  Even if someone wanted to think that represents (barely) progress, you also can’t simply ignore the pathetic OOC performance when evaluating where we are and where are likely to get to under JC.

And to Dude’s point, I do think Ira Lee would have helped, but it probably wouldn’t have left me all that much more optimistic.

The only way I see JC turning this around - in a real way, like challenging for the top 100 next year - is if he retains our top players, brings in 2 high level impact bigs, gets an assistant coach who can teach the guards to stop penetration, and finds a a way to tweak the offense to generate better shots instead of relying so much on individual play.

 

3/11/2022 12:54 pm  #18


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

Somehow I think it is wrong to wish for a new coach, but I do.  I just don't see a way to being better than mediocre if the current staff stays. The odds have to be in the favor of going with a new coach after next season.

The interesting thing will be if JC can land immediate impact players in the frontcourt.  What if he could get an Isaiah Armwood like transfer?  That will be interesting, because GW could possibly be in the top 4 or 5 of the A-10 with really good front court players.

But assuming that doesn't happen, I just hope the young talented players stay through whatever transition occurs. Maybe JC lands another Freshman surprise next year who adds to the list of guys we would want to see stay through a coaching transition.  Just so the cupboard isn't bare if a new coach comes along.

I would actually like to see GW try for a more seasoned coach (no, not Tom Penders), but maybe a coach who has been at it for a while at a lower conference and wants to move up to the A-10.  So perhaps a Mike Jarvis or Mike Lonergan type guy.  Maybe a coach in their 40's or even 50's who still has the energy to go out and recruit, and has a strategy to recruit.  It would be great to see GW go after international players again.  That was always a good strategy, in addition to DMV guys.


 

 

3/11/2022 4:04 pm  #19


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

dmvpiranha wrote:

Benchmarks for next year:
9) Finish as a top 125-150 KenPom team. That would require a 75-100 spot jump from this year which does feel a bit out of reach as of now but adding key pieces to the frontcourt may change that.
 

DMV Pirahna, I think you set your sights too low.

For the purpose of this question I’m assuming Tanya Vogel does not have the ambition or the guts (or budget) to move on from her signature hire this year, which means at the end of next year she will have to decide whether to get a new coach or extend JC (or worse, whether to leave him for a 5th year but unable to recruit because recruits won’t know if he’ll be there). 

If we finish next year around 135 - roughly where Rhode Island was this year (as well as teams like South Alabama or Sam Houston St) - would you really think that would show that JC can get us to the tourney? 

I know it’s almost impossible to ask a team to jump over 100 spots, but if we aren’t at least close to the top 100 would you really think he can get us back to the tourney?

 

3/11/2022 4:10 pm  #20


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

--START OLD MAN RANT--
We saw flashes of good play this season (at URI, most of the game vs LaSalle-- though not the last couple of mins--, Radford) but I am with those who wonder just how much of the 12 win total was more the result of other teams sucking. We all felt great about the showing against then-nationally rantked College Park CC, although now we know that the Twerps were just a con job using smoke and mirrors. The win at URI was great, but it was also the start of a collapse by URI that makes the failing freeway overpasses in the midwest look structually sound. And then there was the play down the stretch where (statistically) the team was as bad as at the start of the season (offensive boards by opponents, turnovers, shooting percentage all similar in the last few games to the first few), And it was all capped off with the first loss to umASS since before Bad Bunny had played a venue larger than a Building C lecture hall. And that loss was not against a very good umASS team, and it came at time when the team SHOULD have been playing its best, and it came on the A10´s biggest stage.
So, perhaps that uneasy malaise we were all feeling in the days between the losses to BU and UNC-C was the correct way of looking at things. Sure, Bishop is a better player when he passes the ball and gets the ball off of passes, sure JoeBam brings talent and excitement we have been waiting a long time to see in a GW uniform, yes Freeman looks like a great catch and is a keeper, sure the effects of injuries to Harris and Lee weakend the team and gosh-darnit if Hunter Dean didn´t have some moments of inspired basketball. But overall, the team went 12-18 and sputtered at the end of the season.
Success in 2022-23 starts now as coaches review video with players and give them their off-season assignments to work on over the summer. Defensive footwork in the paint is a painfully obvious place that needs improvement. Off-ball movement needs to increase. Spatial awreness on the court has to be developed. Without any of this, we are just looking at next season being a repeat of the old formula of winning when shooting well against an equal or lesser opponent and losing otherwise.
Oh, and student enthusiasm has to be rekindled. Remember the crowd for the STFU game to start the season? Why did only 50 or so of those students go to the downtown arena last night? Heck, most of them didn´t even bother showing up for Senior Night.
--END OLD MAN RANT-- 

 

Last edited by GW Alum Abroad (3/11/2022 4:13 pm)

 

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