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3/11/2022 4:39 pm  #21


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

GW Alum Abroad wrote:

Oh, and student enthusiasm has to be rekindled. Remember the crowd for the STFU game to start the season? Why did only 50 or so of those students go to the downtown arena last night? Heck, most of them didn´t even bother showing up for Senior Night.
 

As one of the few students who does care about the basketball team I've thought about this a lot. The main thing that would increase on campus interest would obviously be if the team started winning more. But I also think the pandemic has had an impact and the athletic department/school has done a terrible job marketing the games (and the team in general). Oftentimes students don't even know (or care) that games are happening. They could increase student turnout by just putting posters saying that the games are happening in every building on campus, which they did for the St Francis and BU games (and to a lesser extent the URI game).

As for last night, it made me very sad seeing how few people came (the Bonnies had a student section three times as big for their game today) but I think it was a combination of students leaving for spring break and generally just not caring or wanting to pay for tickets.

 

3/11/2022 4:54 pm  #22


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

Speaking of next season, maybe we could have an offense that didn't rely as much on Bishop to shoot.
Or as John Feinstein said, "Bishop only shoots when he has the ball." 

Last season, Bishop took more shots per game than anyone in A-10, averaging 15 a game.
This season, Bishop again took more shots per game than anyone in A-10, also averaging 15 a game.

Last season, Bishop had a .427 FG percentage, ranking 37th in A-10 
This season, Bishop had a .387 FG percentage, ranking 61st in A-10.

Last season Bishop had a  .34  3-pt FG percentage, ranking 31st in A10
This season Bishop had a   .32  3-pt FG percentage, ranking 43rd in A-10. No player has a worse percentage than Bishop who took as many or more  3-pt shots 



 

 

3/11/2022 5:18 pm  #23


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

GW Alum Abroad wrote:

Oh, and student enthusiasm has to be rekindled. Remember the crowd for the STFU game to start the season? Why did only 50 or so of those students go to the downtown arena last night? Heck, most of them didn´t even bother showing up for Senior Night.
 

Great insight from GWStudent2024.  

Some of the anemic student enthusiasm is systemic as well, unfortunately. 

I follow some VCU fans on Twitter and they were constantly complaining about the lack of student enthusiasm and institutional support this season even though we'd gladly take the atmosphere in the Siegel Center every day of the week.  I'd say if you took a poll of A-10 fans, almost every school outside of maybe Dayton would say that student enthusiasm was better in the past than it is now.

That's not an excuse to say things couldn't be better than they are right now.  But I doubt we ever get back to the late 90s/early 00s level attendance unless we go 26-1 or go to back-to-back NCAAs again.

 

     Thread Starter
 

3/11/2022 5:51 pm  #24


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

GW73 wrote:

Speaking of next season, maybe we could have an offense that didn't rely as much on Bishop to shoot.
Or as John Feinstein said, "Bishop only shoots when he has the ball." 

Last season, Bishop took more shots per game than anyone in A-10, averaging 15 a game.
This season, Bishop again took more shots per game than anyone in A-10, also averaging 15 a game.

Last season, Bishop had a .427 FG percentage, ranking 37th in A-10 
This season, Bishop had a .387 FG percentage, ranking 61st in A-10.

Last season Bishop had a  .34  3-pt FG percentage, ranking 31st in A10
This season Bishop had a   .32  3-pt FG percentage, ranking 43rd in A-10. No player has a worse percentage than Bishop who took as many or more  3-pt shots 



 

 Very good and interesting analysis. The odd thing is that James has improved a lot in terms of being a team player.
Of course, he no longer has the ball in his hands all the time. The eye test and maybe stats show he is a better player when he is not always the focus of the offense. And no, all Bam not the answer either. Brayon is the only one who got things going especially first half to pull us to within mere humiliation.
As noted above by our excellent analysts, we need more than 3 players to contribute on offense.
But these statistics tell a disturbing story about how unbalanced our offense is (coupled with an often uncaring defense).
Especially the one about the comparatively low percentage of shots made and Bishop's  highest amount of shots in the league.
 What's really odd is that we are supposedly all about the analytics.
 Yet last night and in recent games, as we were making a small run toward it being an actual game, we reverted back to low-percentage, quick shots with no one under the basket. Aided by lazy passes, these shots by our stars proved to be an effective rally killer. UMass didn't have to do anything. We did it to ourselves.

 

3/11/2022 6:51 pm  #25


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

I missed the Ira Lee news, is he for sure gone, like transferring? Left school? That's a bummer, I was hoping he would be back to play a big role in the front court.

 

3/11/2022 6:58 pm  #26


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

Hire Joe Dooley for another 5 years of this!

Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

Can you imagine what ML would have done here if Luke Garza came? Nigel Johnson?

We can play that game all day.

 

3/12/2022 10:04 am  #27


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

GW73 wrote:

Speaking of next season, maybe we could have an offense that didn't rely as much on Bishop to shoot.
Or as John Feinstein said, "Bishop only shoots when he has the ball." 

Last season, Bishop took more shots per game than anyone in A-10, averaging 15 a game.
This season, Bishop again took more shots per game than anyone in A-10, also averaging 15 a game.

Last season, Bishop had a .427 FG percentage, ranking 37th in A-10 
This season, Bishop had a .387 FG percentage, ranking 61st in A-10.

Last season Bishop had a  .34  3-pt FG percentage, ranking 31st in A10
This season Bishop had a   .32  3-pt FG percentage, ranking 43rd in A-10. No player has a worse percentage than Bishop who took as many or more  3-pt shots 



 

I don’t know why you threadjacked this into another bash James Biship threads, but in his defense out of the 17 A10 players who used at least 24% of their team’s possessions, Bishop was 6th in offensive efficiency (which matters a lot more than raw FG%).

The rankings are:

1) Brajkovic
2) Loyer
3) Joe Bamisile
4) Grant Golden
5) Josh Oduro
6) James Bishop
7) Toumani Camara
8) Jackie Johnson
9) Darrius Quisenberry
10) Brayon Freeman
11) Jordan Hall
12) Khalil Brantley
13) Michael Steadman
14) Chuba Ohams
15) Amir Spears
16) Makhei Mitchell
17) Makhel Mitchell


I’d say the last two show why URI was such a disappointment this season, and the first two (who have a massive gap over the rest of the field) show why Davidson came in first.

 

3/12/2022 12:23 pm  #28


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

Oh look the 3 GW stars all top 10 :

I guess that let's the hot air out of that BS argument!
The rankings are:

1) Brajkovic
2) Loyer
3) Joe Bamisile
4) Grant Golden
5) Josh Oduro
6) James Bishop
7) Toumani Camara
8) Jackie Johnson
9) Darrius Quisenberry
10) Brayon Freeman

 

3/14/2022 6:08 am  #29


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

What other school besides GW would retain a coach with a 29-48 record after three seasons? None that cares about the success of its only revenue-producing sport.

 

3/14/2022 7:27 am  #30


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

moneybox wrote:

What other school besides GW would retain a coach with a 29-48 record after three seasons? None that cares about the success of its only revenue-producing sport.

Joe Dooley was 29-52 at ECU after 3 seasons and was fired after going 15-15 in year 4.  Someone on the board here posted the old adage, fire a coach a year before the end of his contract or extend him a year before the end of his contract.  These scenarios help in recruiting.  

 

3/14/2022 8:18 am  #31


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

moneybox wrote:

What other school besides GW would retain a coach with a 29-48 record after three seasons? None that cares about the success of its only revenue-producing sport.

I realize what you’re doing but I’ll answer your question honestly. Lots of schools! I don’t know why it’s so hard to understand coaches almost always get 4 years absent scandal or deep pocketed alumni. I don’t think anyone is saying JC is beyond being fired, just that it’s rare to get canned after 3, especially when one of those years was a COVID year that wiped out half the games.

There are probably even more examples but I limited my search to A-10 and above. Probably missed some too.

So JC’s record is actually 29-50, even worse than you posted. Which equates to a .367 winning %.

Tom Crean at Indiana was 28-66 .267 after three years and coached 6 more years after that at IU.

Scott Drew at Baylor was 21-53 .283 after three years and oh, I don’t know, won the NCAA championship last year after 16 more seasons on the job.

Kelvin Sampson at Washington State 30-57 .344 after 3. Had a pretty good career after that.

Tim Miles at Colorado State 32-63 .337 after 3 and coached 2 more years before getting the Iowa State promotion

Ed DeChellis at PSU 31-57 .352 after 3 coached 5 more years there

Fred Hoiberg at Nebraska currently 24-67 .264 after 3 and is coming back for next year

Oliver Purnell at DePaul 30-64 .319 after 3 and coached 2 more years there

Steve Donahue at BC 33-63 .344 after 3 and coached 1 more year there.

Anthony Solomon at Bona 17-66 .205 after 3 and coached 1 more year there.

Billy Lange at SJU hired the same offseason as JC 22-60 .268 and is coming back next year.

Honorable Mentions for those with slightly better w-l%

Danny Manning .376 at Wake after 3 and coached 3 more years

Mark Fox .376 at Cal after 3 and is still coming back as of today

Tony Barbee .372  at Auburn after 3 coached 1 more year

Chris Mullin .388 at St Johns after 3 coached 1 more year

Jeff Capel .455 at Pitt after 3 and still coaching

     Thread Starter
 

3/14/2022 9:53 am  #32


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

Moneybox is making a nonsensical argument as practically everyone here understands that the school was not going to pay two year's worth of "dead money" to an outgoing coach (or even a generous buyout).  Not to mention that some progress has been made this season.  Just because we may not be precisely where we'd like to be right now does not give one the right to deny that progress has been made.

 

3/14/2022 1:36 pm  #33


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

Free Quebec wrote:

dmvpiranha wrote:

Benchmarks for next year:
9) Finish as a top 125-150 KenPom team. That would require a 75-100 spot jump from this year which does feel a bit out of reach as of now but adding key pieces to the frontcourt may change that.
 

DMV Pirahna, I think you set your sights too low.

For the purpose of this question I’m assuming Tanya Vogel does not have the ambition or the guts (or budget) to move on from her signature hire this year

Just wanted to jump this to apologize to Tanya and out myself for yet another dumb, incorrect take. I was wrong. 

Hope she gets the hire right this time.

 

3/14/2022 1:53 pm  #34


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

You were not alone FQ.  My apologies to moneybox.  Guess it wasn't nonsense after all.

 

3/14/2022 3:38 pm  #35


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

Free Quebec wrote:

Free Quebec wrote:

dmvpiranha wrote:

Benchmarks for next year:
9) Finish as a top 125-150 KenPom team. That would require a 75-100 spot jump from this year which does feel a bit out of reach as of now but adding key pieces to the frontcourt may change that.
 

DMV Pirahna, I think you set your sights too low.

For the purpose of this question I’m assuming Tanya Vogel does not have the ambition or the guts (or budget) to move on from her signature hire this year

Just wanted to jump this to apologize to Tanya and out myself for yet another dumb, incorrect take. I was wrong.

Hope she gets the hire right this time.

FQ, many of us thought the same.

 

 

3/14/2022 4:01 pm  #36


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

Mike K wrote:

Free Quebec wrote:

Free Quebec wrote:


DMV Pirahna, I think you set your sights too low.

For the purpose of this question I’m assuming Tanya Vogel does not have the ambition or the guts (or budget) to move on from her signature hire this year

Just wanted to jump this to apologize to Tanya and out myself for yet another dumb, incorrect take. I was wrong.

Hope she gets the hire right this time.

FQ, many of us thought the same.

 

It's not a dumb take. You can still think that and be correct. It could be that TV actually does lack ambition, guts or budget to have made this move. Her hand could have been forced: Make the move or you're gone, too. Or there could be news we don't know about. We don't know and likely won't unless it devolves and we return to Deadspin territory. 

 

3/14/2022 4:09 pm  #37


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

dmvpiranha wrote:

1) Learn to communicate as a team on defense. Don't let the guards beat us off the bounce. Draw more charges on that end. Rotate better when other teams move the ball. Force the opposition to take more midrange shots instead of easy layups. We likely need to spend most of the open scholarships on forwards as we have like no wings at this point.

2) Take better shots. We moved the ball better the second half of the year (and finally got to the line a bit more at the end of the season) but that needs to continue to improve. There need to be more possessions with 5+ passes passing around the horn for an open shot. Avoid stupid turnovers like throwing the ball away.

3) Be more balanced on offense. Have the post guy take more shots and put less pressure on the guards.

4) Add more depth. That's the case every year (and we likely overrate the second half of the roster every offseason) but this year's bench was not much better than the previous two years (it may have been worse).

5) Be better rebounding the ball on both ends. Not much more needs to be said there as we were far and away the worst overall in rebounding in the A10.

6) Win the free throw/foul battle. We can blame the refs but we need to be more aggressive on offense and be in better positioning defensively. It felt like we always had 2-3x the number of fouls as the other team, especially before halftime.

Benchmarks for next year:
7) Go over .500 OOC.
8) Win 10 games in A10.
9) Finish as a top 125-150 KenPom team. That would require a 75-100 spot jump from this year which does feel a bit out of reach as of now but adding key pieces to the frontcourt may change that.
 

I'll never top you DMV, but how about:

1. Stop the ball on defense
2. Let the ball do some of the work on offense
3. Offensive rebounding! - Enough of the NBA spread with Offensive Rebounding Optional.



 

 

3/14/2022 9:41 pm  #38


Re: So Where Do We Go From Here?

Free Quebec wrote:

dmvpiranha wrote:

Benchmarks for next year:
9) Finish as a top 125-150 KenPom team. That would require a 75-100 spot jump from this year which does feel a bit out of reach as of now but adding key pieces to the frontcourt may change that.
 

DMV Pirahna, I think you set your sights too low.

For the purpose of this question I’m assuming Tanya Vogel does not have the ambition or the guts (or budget) to move on from her signature hire this year, which means at the end of next year she will have to decide whether to get a new coach or extend JC (or worse, whether to leave him for a 5th year but unable to recruit because recruits won’t know if he’ll be there).

If we finish next year around 135 - roughly where Rhode Island was this year (as well as teams like South Alabama or Sam Houston St) - would you really think that would show that JC can get us to the tourney?

I know it’s almost impossible to ask a team to jump over 100 spots, but if we aren’t at least close to the top 100 would you really think he can get us back to the tourney?

Perhaps you are right FQ that I am setting my sights a bit too low. GW had good success in my 4 years as a student, and I would love for us to get back to winning 20+ games more consistently. I guess I am factoring in a bit just how low the program fell a few years back and COVID really throwing things off. The recent run of losing has lowered my expectations a bit (and I hate that's the case, but it is what it is). It would be great to qualify for a postseason tournament and knock off a few teams that we shouldn't (outside of conference or otherwise) and I hope that is the minimum requirement consistently once we get back to where we need to be. Whether or not JC could get us back to the tourney or not wasn't necessarily part of the thinking process. In some ways, a lot has to go right for us to get back to the NCAA tournament, but I can still find the season a success if we win 60% of our games (or slightly worse depending on how much we lose). Unfortunately while we saw some progress late this year I will say that this year's team failed to meet even my modest expectations for this season. I'm not sure whether KenPom was the right way to go as a benchmark, given St. Joe's is roughly around that 150 range because they blew out Temple and Richmond. The Hawks performed pretty poorly otherwise.

FredD wrote:

dmvpiranha wrote:

1) Learn to communicate as a team on defense. Don't let the guards beat us off the bounce. Draw more charges on that end. Rotate better when other teams move the ball. Force the opposition to take more midrange shots instead of easy layups. We likely need to spend most of the open scholarships on forwards as we have like no wings at this point.

2) Take better shots. We moved the ball better the second half of the year (and finally got to the line a bit more at the end of the season) but that needs to continue to improve. There need to be more possessions with 5+ passes passing around the horn for an open shot. Avoid stupid turnovers like throwing the ball away.

3) Be more balanced on offense. Have the post guy take more shots and put less pressure on the guards.

4) Add more depth. That's the case every year (and we likely overrate the second half of the roster every offseason) but this year's bench was not much better than the previous two years (it may have been worse).

5) Be better rebounding the ball on both ends. Not much more needs to be said there as we were far and away the worst overall in rebounding in the A10.

6) Win the free throw/foul battle. We can blame the refs but we need to be more aggressive on offense and be in better positioning defensively. It felt like we always had 2-3x the number of fouls as the other team, especially before halftime.

Benchmarks for next year:
7) Go over .500 OOC.
8) Win 10 games in A10.
9) Finish as a top 125-150 KenPom team. That would require a 75-100 spot jump from this year which does feel a bit out of reach as of now but adding key pieces to the frontcourt may change that.
 

I'll never top you DMV, but how about:

1. Stop the ball on defense
2. Let the ball do some of the work on offense
3. Offensive rebounding! - Enough of the NBA spread with Offensive Rebounding Optional.
 

I 100% agree with all of these points FredD. Our defense lacked communication as a team all year and the only reason we finished somewhere around "okay" territory is because we had a couple of good individual defenders like Ricky or Joe who would try only sometimes. There was never a feeling that the opposition ever felt uncomfortable operating in the halfcourt despite the "mayhem" identity we were promised.

I'm not sure we had more than 10 plays in the JC era where we made 5+ passes in an offensive possession.

I love the offensive rebounding point as well. I mentioned this I believe in the last recap of the year, but I think the NBA way of thinking isn't fully beneficial in the college game especially since the shot making is nowhere close either. I'm not sure our transition defense was so elite that ignoring the offensive boards was worth it either.
 

 

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