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1/20/2021 6:54 pm  #141


Re: Other Games - November

The public health crisis started in March 2020. Coach K had plenty of time to assess and make a statement which had it come prior to the season would have been perceived entirely different. The potential health risks to him, his family and the team/other coaches were well-known before November.

You are right that I can't prove anything. But this is not a court of law. Nate Oats and several other coaches said what I did. And let's not forget his history here re Pete Gaudet. Nor the fact that his players reportedly begged him to make a statement on racial equality and let's just say it took awhile for Coach K to measure his options. 

No doubt a great legendary coach who has won at an unprecedented level. Great person? Not so sure.

Last edited by GWRising (1/20/2021 6:54 pm)

 

1/21/2021 9:53 am  #142


Re: Other Games - November

You should understand that anytime Coach K has something to say about the sport in general, virtually everyone is going to listen and many will undoubtedly feel persuaded.  That's a result of his standing within the sport.  Essentially, what was being said by so many college basketball voices between April-November was akin to "no matter what, we're going to have to have an NCAA Tournament" after missing out on one in 2020.  This reflected the very harsh and very real financial picture that the NCAA, and subsequently many colleges and universities, were facing.

Therefore, I would not be too quick to criticize Coach K for not going against what his sport was claiming was necessary.  Sometimes, it's important to be a good soldier.

Let's also add to this that the virus had finished peaking prior to the start of the basketball season.  A new wave was indeed forecast; however, there were differing opinions as to whether this might start as early as November or as late as February.  Through it all, Coach K has not asked to cancel the ACC season, or ACC tournament, or NCAA tournament.  Only some remaining OOC games.  Still, I firmly believe that he privately believes that this season should not be played (taking finances out of the equation) and that this is entirely due to the public health crisis and not the composition of his team.  When his heart is not in it, this will trickle down accordingly.  I believe this is what's happening at Duke this year, as I said, not dissimilar to the 2020 Washington Nationals who could not wait for their season to be over.

Regarding Pete Gaudet, Coach K had guided one of his mid-1990's teams to a 9-3 record before stepping down to have back surgery.  Gaudet became the interim and coached the team to 4 more wins the rest of the season.  GWRising has referenced Coach K's publicly stated pleas that the record in Gaudet coached games not be applied to his overall coaching record.  Several points to make about this:

1. Trying to establish a correlation between this situation and today is just foolish.  I guess the best attempt is to suggest that Coach K was selfish back then and remains so today.  You really have to believe that Coach K sees no health risks in playing today and simply does not want to due to the quality of his team to make this work.  Incredibly far-fetched IMO.

2. When Coach K stepped down, wasn't he technically correct?  If he didn't coach these games, why should the few wins and many losses be applied to his own coaching record?  You may think of this as egocentric but again, egocentricity is not what's in play right now.

3. Why was Coach K being egocentric?  Probably because he was thinking about his own legacy.  This took place years before he would be named the US Olympic Head Coach or when he would become a virtual lock to reach the Hall of Fame.  Let's ask this another way.  GWRising, if you were in Coach K's shoes at this exact moment in time, would you be just fine applying Gaudet's 4-15 record to your own record or might you argue that this record should not be held against you?

To be fair, I have never been a fan of Coach K's whininess or his tendencies to impact officiating in his favor.  However, it is quite a reach to suggest that Coach K does not want to play this year because he does not like his team, the same way is was moronic of Kirk Herbstreit to suggest that Michigan was ducking Ohio State because they knew they could not beat them and to land them a blow regarding their odds to reach the NCAA playoff.  In both instances, there is a very real and deadly virus that is wreaking genuine havoc on every facet of life.    

 

1/23/2021 11:40 am  #143


Re: Other Games - November

George Mason at St.Joe's    12:30   NBC SportsNetwork - this is the 2nd of back to back matchups, Mason won the previous game by 2. St.Joe's is now 1-11 and 0-6 in conference play
La Salle at Richmond             2:30   NBC SportsNetwork
Dayton at VCU                       4:30  CBS SportsNetwork   

Maryland at #17 Minnesota   2       Big 10 Network 
Texas A&M at Ole Miss        3:30   SEC Network - Marfo is playing about 13 minutes a game for A&M
 

     Thread Starter
 

1/23/2021 6:11 pm  #144


Re: Other Games - November

Duke loses again, 3rd straight loss, 1st time in 5 years, they are 5-5 and in real peril to miss the tourney at this rate

 

 

1/24/2021 11:43 am  #145


Re: Other Games - November

Coach K was visibly upset when answering a student reporter's question. I'll just say he could have been more direct with his response. Clip is below.
https://twitter.com/BarstoolReags/status/1353152186319044615

I will say it was better than Stackhouse's comments after Vanderbilt lost to Arkansas the other day where he threw his players under the bus:
https://twitter.com/emily_proud/status/1353076757507805184

Vanderbilt is no doubt a hard place to win at in the SEC - Bryce Drew was canned but he is doing just fine at GCU now (similar to how he did when he was at Valparaiso). Wonder if Stackhouse is on the hot seat. COVID will probably lower the number of firings this year, but I can think of a few that may be in trouble apart from Stackhouse:

Jim Christian (Boston College): The Golden Eagles haven't finished above 10th in his seven years there, and are currently in last in the ACC.

Bruce Weber (Kansas State): Don't get me wrong, he has done a very good job overall in his time there, and this could just be a few down years before he gets the Wildcats back to the tournament. However, KState only won 11 games overall last year (3 in conference), and are headed towards the bottom of the Big 12 again this year. They also lost to Fort Hays State. The offense has always been a bit of a struggle.

Dave Leitao (DePaul): Five consecutive last place finishes in the Big East, and they recently got a new AD.

Nick McDevitt (Middle Tennessee): He had a good tenure at UNC Asheville, but has won just 11 and 8 games in his first two years in Murfreesboro. This is a team that is not too far removed from NCAA tournament success, defeating Michigan State in 2016. The Blue Raiders are currently last in the C-USA.

Paul Weir (New Mexico): The Lobos have underperformed since he's taken over, at least looking at their history as a program. This is probably their first season where the bottom has fallen out (losing to San Jose State is like losing to Fordham in the A10 - funnily enough, the SJSU coach is a Fordham alum!). UNM should definitely be more competitive in the Mountain West. From a financial standpoint, I doubt Weir is let go, but there has been quite a bit of dysfunction off the court in the past year, from players driving while intoxicated to a shooting taking place at a player-hosted party. They also sadly lost a recruit not too long ago to a shooting as well.

Mike Hopkins (Washington): Underperformed last season with a pretty talented team (went 5-13 in the Pac 12) and this year the team has just been flat out bad. Washington should never be worse than Washington State, but that is the case this year and you could even argue Eastern Washington is better than them.

Rodney Billups (Denver): The Pioneers have won 8 and 7 games the past two seasons and things aren't looking any better this season. While Denver hasn't necessarily had a storied history, I feel like their location should make them more competitive in the Summit. Sad that it hasn't worked out for a native. His brother Chauncey was one of my favorite players to watch in the 2000s. Those Detroit Piston teams...

Terry Porter (Portland): His Pilots have won seven total games combined in WCC play his four seasons there. His son also decided to transfer last offseason which says a lot as well. Other factors could be at play there, but losing consistently doesn't help either.

In other news, Kansas lost to Oklahoma yesterday, going 0-2 overall for the week. The blue bloods continue to struggle during this COVID season.

To conclude, have to sadly mention Mississippi Valley State scoring FIVE total points in the second half against Prairie View A&M, a game they would lose 77-31. The Delta Devils I think have lost their top three players to injury, but I would think you could score more than five points by accident within a 20 minute span. This team is currently the second worst all-time in the KenPom era. Only 2012-13 Grambling State is rated worse as of now. Even the next worst team, Chicago State (who opted out) would be expected to beat MVSU by 12 on a neutral court!!
 

 

1/25/2021 4:56 pm  #146


Re: Other Games - November

That was kind of a bully move by Coach K.  If a veteran reporter asked him what the next steps are, a very common reporter question after a loss, he never would have responded withheld that condescending attitude.  He probably would have just answered the question. 

Reminds me of when he crapped on the A10 for getting 6 bids when by any and every metric we had 6 tourney level teams.  Coach K likes to punch down.

 

1/25/2021 5:09 pm  #147


Re: Other Games - November

I don't know if he's always been this way, but there's little question that Coach K has shown an unattractive condescending side as he has gotten older.  This was yet another example of Coach K assuming the role of "Coach K knows best."  FQ mentioned the A10 example but what this really reminded me of was the Dillon Brooks incident when Brook's Oregon team knocked off Duke in the tournament, Brooks did some showboating, and Coach K grabbed him (by the wrist as I recall) and explained that he was too good  a player to be doing that nonsense.  It's Coach K giving another young man a lecture or trying to teach him a lesson.  The problem is that while it's no place for him to be lecturing another team's player (and he did apologize to Dana Altman and to Dillon Brooks for the incident), it's also no place for him to "pull rank" on a student reporter who asked a perfectly fair question.  I personally think phrases like "bully move" or "he went after this kid" are a bit too harsh but there's no question that he was very much in the wrong.

 

1/25/2021 5:15 pm  #148


Re: Other Games - November

dmvpiranha wrote:

Coach K was visibly upset when answering a student reporter's question. I'll just say he could have been more direct with his response. Clip is below.
https://twitter.com/BarstoolReags/status/1353152186319044615

I will say it was better than Stackhouse's comments after Vanderbilt lost to Arkansas the other day where he threw his players under the bus:
https://twitter.com/emily_proud/status/1353076757507805184

Vanderbilt is no doubt a hard place to win at in the SEC - Bryce Drew was canned but he is doing just fine at GCU now (similar to how he did when he was at Valparaiso). Wonder if Stackhouse is on the hot seat. COVID will probably lower the number of firings this year, but I can think of a few that may be in trouble apart from Stackhouse:

Jim Christian (Boston College): The Golden Eagles haven't finished above 10th in his seven years there, and are currently in last in the ACC.

Bruce Weber (Kansas State): Don't get me wrong, he has done a very good job overall in his time there, and this could just be a few down years before he gets the Wildcats back to the tournament. However, KState only won 11 games overall last year (3 in conference), and are headed towards the bottom of the Big 12 again this year. They also lost to Fort Hays State. The offense has always been a bit of a struggle.

Dave Leitao (DePaul): Five consecutive last place finishes in the Big East, and they recently got a new AD.

Nick McDevitt (Middle Tennessee): He had a good tenure at UNC Asheville, but has won just 11 and 8 games in his first two years in Murfreesboro. This is a team that is not too far removed from NCAA tournament success, defeating Michigan State in 2016. The Blue Raiders are currently last in the C-USA.

Paul Weir (New Mexico): The Lobos have underperformed since he's taken over, at least looking at their history as a program. This is probably their first season where the bottom has fallen out (losing to San Jose State is like losing to Fordham in the A10 - funnily enough, the SJSU coach is a Fordham alum!). UNM should definitely be more competitive in the Mountain West. From a financial standpoint, I doubt Weir is let go, but there has been quite a bit of dysfunction off the court in the past year, from players driving while intoxicated to a shooting taking place at a player-hosted party. They also sadly lost a recruit not too long ago to a shooting as well.

Mike Hopkins (Washington): Underperformed last season with a pretty talented team (went 5-13 in the Pac 12) and this year the team has just been flat out bad. Washington should never be worse than Washington State, but that is the case this year and you could even argue Eastern Washington is better than them.

Rodney Billups (Denver): The Pioneers have won 8 and 7 games the past two seasons and things aren't looking any better this season. While Denver hasn't necessarily had a storied history, I feel like their location should make them more competitive in the Summit. Sad that it hasn't worked out for a native. His brother Chauncey was one of my favorite players to watch in the 2000s. Those Detroit Piston teams...

Terry Porter (Portland): His Pilots have won seven total games combined in WCC play his four seasons there. His son also decided to transfer last offseason which says a lot as well. Other factors could be at play there, but losing consistently doesn't help either.

In other news, Kansas lost to Oklahoma yesterday, going 0-2 overall for the week. The blue bloods continue to struggle during this COVID season.

To conclude, have to sadly mention Mississippi Valley State scoring FIVE total points in the second half against Prairie View A&M, a game they would lose 77-31. The Delta Devils I think have lost their top three players to injury, but I would think you could score more than five points by accident within a 20 minute span. This team is currently the second worst all-time in the KenPom era. Only 2012-13 Grambling State is rated worse as of now. Even the next worst team, Chicago State (who opted out) would be expected to beat MVSU by 12 on a neutral court!!
 

It looks like Mike Hopkins should have remained the 'Coach In Waiting' at Syracuse!! Maybe he'll go back to that role because Boeheim doesn't appear to be slowing down one bit. The one-and-done thing really backfired on him last season as he signed 2 top 10 players, yet Washington was terrible. Both players left for the draft and they look to be even worse this year!! 

I'm rooting for Jerry Stackhouse to turn things around at Vanderbilt because he was such a great player in college and the NBA. This is only his 2nd year at Vandy, and they aren't exactly a basketball power, so maybe they'll be patient and give him 4 or 5 years.

I wasn't aware that Chauncey Billups had a brother in coaching, I just saw that he played at Denver in the early to mid 2000's

Leitao led DePaul to the NCAA tournament 10-15 years ago, he left for a better job(Virginia?) got fired, became an assistant or head coach and found his way back to DePaul. That's got to be a first in the coaching ranks where a guy leaves for a better job, gets fired multiple times then comes back to coach the previous school. DePaul has been terrible in the years between Leitao's stints as coach there so they'll probably keep him there for a long time
 

     Thread Starter
 

1/26/2021 1:24 pm  #149


Re: Other Games - November

Fordham and Jeff Neubauer have parted ways:

https://twitter.com/AndrewBogusch/status/1354132025452732419

 

1/26/2021 4:38 pm  #150


Re: Other Games - November

Richmond at St.Joe's      6   ESPN+
Dayton at #22 St.Louis    8  CBS SportsNetwork - this will be STL's first game since December 23rd, they are 7-1. I guess it's good that they've remained in the top 25 for all this time without playing

Butler at UConn                     8:30  FS1   - Jair Bolden is Butler's leading scorer at 13.5ppg
#24 Oklahoma at #5 Texas    7  ESPN2    
Kentucky at #9 Alabama        7  ESPN     - Alabama is 8-0 in the SEC and won most of their conference games in blowout fashion, they blew out Kentucky in the 1st matchup. Kentucky can salvage their season with a win here, it will be interesting to see Calipari's adjustments for the rematch
 

     Thread Starter
 

1/26/2021 9:15 pm  #151


Re: Other Games - November

Kentucky loses again, 70-58 they are now 5-10.
This is the first season sweep for Alabama in over 30 years
 

 

1/26/2021 11:45 pm  #152


Re: Other Games - November

St Joe's is  1-14, 0-9 in league play.  A lot of St Joe's fans wanted to fire Martelli, be careful what you wish for, his replacement Billy Lange is 7-40 and 2-25 in the A10
 

Last edited by The Dude (1/26/2021 11:45 pm)

 

1/28/2021 9:05 pm  #153


Re: Other Games - November

Rutgers beat Michigan ST 67-37 (1st win in history)

Lunardi had Rutgers among the last teams in the tourney, this one should help

 

 

1/30/2021 12:52 pm  #154


Re: Other Games - November

St.Joe's thought they hit rock bottom in Martelli's last season, but they are now showing that there may be a level or 2 lower than rock bottom!! St.Joe's actually looked to be much improved in their first few games of the season where they were very competitive against BCS teams, I'm not sure what happened after that.

La Salle at VCU                                  1  NBC SportsNetwork
George Mason at St. Bonaventure     2  CBS SporstNetwork
Rhode Island at Dayton                      2  CBS SportsNetwork
St.Joe's  at  Duquesne                       7   ESPN+

Providence at Georgetown               1   CBS  -  Georgetown has been on pause for COVID for a little longer than GW has, this will be their first game in exactly 3 weeks, a January 9th loss to Syracuse.
Xavier at Butler                               5:30  FS1

     Thread Starter
 

2/01/2021 8:57 pm  #155


Re: Other Games - November

Duke, who began the night outside of the Bracket, Per Lunardi, lost to Miami, depleted roster and came in 6-10 and 2-9 in league play.
They are 7-6 and now look like they are joining Kentucky missing the tourney.  


 

 

2/04/2021 1:24 am  #156


Re: Other Games - November

Chalk up another loss for Kentucky tonight, that's 11 losses in 16 games.

Pretty stunning turn of events for a pre-season top 10 team, #1 recruiting class blueblood.  preseason AP Top 25 is below:

1. Gonzaga
2. Baylor
3. Villanova
4. Virginia
5. Iowa
6. Kansas
7. Wisconsin
8. Illinois
9. Duke
10. Kentucky

Last edited by The Dude (2/04/2021 1:25 am)

 

2/04/2021 8:51 am  #157


Re: Other Games - November

St. Johns with the big upset win over Villanova last night. Toro didn't see any game time. He's averaging less than 10 mpg.

He's played a total of 17 minutes in the past 5 games.

 

 

2/04/2021 9:33 am  #158


Re: Other Games - November

Kentucky's strength this season is definitely in their frontcourt. Isaiah Jackson is a really strong defender down low. Their defense has kept them in games.

Having said that, their offense has just been so bad. Bart Torvik rates their offense worse than ours. The freshman class was full of misses, and Kentucky's backcourt is so bad I would go as far as to say 2/3 of D1 teams in the country (including schools at the MAAC/Patriot level) have a better backcourt than them. Mintz and Askew are decent ball handlers (and coming from Creighton, Mintz does bring some three point shooting and some CBB experience) but otherwise both are inconsistent shooters. Askew is just bad in general. Both PGs are below average defenders.

As for the rest of their freshman class, Boston has not shot the ball well at all after coming into college with reputation of being a strong shooter. Clarke has been their worst player, and now there's speculation that he is faking an injury so he can just enter the draft without playing another game at Kentucky. Fletcher and Cal butted heads earlier in the season and Fletcher hasn't played too much. Ware hasn't been much of a factor either. Sarr has been okay coming from Wake Forest, but not really a game-changer.

If you zone Kentucky, you have a good chance at winning. The team as a whole is shooting just 29% from deep. I am unsure why Cal doesn't play Allen more given he is above 40% from deep to stretch defenses more. He isn't the greatest of defenders, but is slightly better than other freshman on the team getting more minutes. Allen has to be wondering what he's doing wrong to not earn more minutes than some of the freshman.

Bottom line is that Cal needs to hit on more freshman next season and be looking actively for more guards who can play at the SEC level. If Skyy doesn't end up reclassing from 2022, it could be another long year for the Wildcats next season.
 

 

2/04/2021 10:00 am  #159


Re: Other Games - November

Good points DMVPiranha.  Interestingly, 247 Sports's composite rankings had Kentucky as the top rated freshman class in the country.  A great example of how it's not just about having the pieces but it's about how to make the pieces fit.  Then again, I heard an analyst say a few weeks ago that Duke and Kentucky are different situations.  Duke has talented kids; Kentucky just doesn't have the talent.

While it has been discussed and agreed upon that the one-and-done approach to recruiting simply does not guarantee access to Final 4's or Championships, it would be foolish to ignore the pandemic in all of this.  This season more than ever speaks to the need of solid senior leadership.  Duke and Kentucky (and GW for that matter) are lacking senior leaders.  Think about the emotional maturity of an average 21 or 22 year old compared to an average 18 year old.  It's an enormous difference.  While no player of any age has ever been through anything like this season in the past, it stands to reason that the more mature upperclassmen are, on the whole, better equipped to deal with the isolation away from basketball as well as the sudden starts and stops of game and practice schedules than players who may be away from home for the first time in their lives.  There are zero or in some cases, very few numbers of fans in the arena to support you.  The celebrations and court-stormings are either gone altogether or severely muted.  Even LeBron James the other night seemed giddy over having two inebriated (I'm guessing) women at courtside to verbally spar with.  He said he was grateful just to have some basketball fans in the building.

So it will be interesting to see whether Duke and Kentucky are losing their grip among the great programs of the sport or if they will bounce back after this most highly unusual season.  Either way, it does not warrant a reminder post each and every time they lose a game.  (Funny, Duke blew out an improved Clemson team by 25 points over the weekend but not a word was written here about that result.  I can't imagine why.)

Last edited by Gwmayhem (2/04/2021 10:02 am)

 

2/04/2021 11:41 pm  #160


Re: Other Games - November

The GW duo of Pikiel and Hobbs roll on, another big win, 4 straight Big 10 wins, they've right the ship after some bumpy waters.

Rutgers is top 25 KenPom now.  Looking good for an NCAA trip

 

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