UCLA had won most of their tournament games with a slower paced style of play, I didn't think they could play that well offensively and match/out-match Gonzaga's offensive output but they did it and almost won. UCLA was one of the biggest underdogs in Final 4 history(about 14 points) too. It's interesting that UCLA's best player in the NCAA tournament(Juzang) was a John Calipari cast-off, it looks like Calipari gave up on him and figured his new crop of 5-star signees would dominate, but that didn't happen. 

As far as Gonzaga's legacy in terms of all-time great teams, I think playing in the WCC(as opposed to the Big 10, SEC or ACC like others) will hurt their legacy a bit, but this team may have 4 or 5 NBA players on this team which will give their legacy a boost. Suggs will be a top 5 pick in the NBA draft and his block/assist late in regulation will be an iconic moment for him if he becomes a great player in the NBA. I think Gonzaga will beat Baylor on Monday night and complete the perfect season. You probably need a perfect offensive game(like UCLA did) to beat this Gonzaga team and I don't think Baylor will be able to match what UCLA did last night, and Baylor is elite defensively, but they aren't good enough to slow down Gonzaga. 

About Baylor-Houston, Houston became the first team in NCAA history to make the Final 4 without beating a single-digit seed, so what we saw yesterday may not be that surprising. Houston beat a 15, 10, 11 and 12 to make the Final 4, maybe they don't make the Final 4 without those upsets

We are likely splitting hairs when trying to decide the alltime greatest NCAA tournament game.  I think 22ndandF's point is valid in that the Laettner shot was a true game winner (in that Duke would have otherwise lost) as opposed to the Suggs shot which would have resulted in a second overtime had it missed.  The fact is that Gonzaga-UCLA is now on an extremely short list of candidates.  The Suggs stretch of blocking a shot at the rim, tracking down the loose ball, firing a long bounce pass for the assist, and ultimately hitting the game winner may very well have been the single greatest stretch of plays I have ever seen a player make under the most possible amount of pressure.

It's practically our duty as fans of a mid-major program to pull for Gonzaga tonight though it's difficult to still think of the Zags as a mid-major.  As for the America's Greatest Coach moniker, not quite yet for Mark Few, win or lose.  With the win, it will have taken Few 754 games to win his first national title.  By contrast, Coach K won his first title in his 529th game which includes five seasons at Army.  Now with 5 titles, Coach K has averaged a national championship for every 306 games he has coached.  The great John Wooden took home 10 titles over the 826 games he coached.  Wooden is the greatest ever, Coach K is the best active by a mile, and Few is a really impressive coach but nowhere near the greatest.

I think you can argue that Coach K is the most successful men's college coach ever, even compared to John Wooden, for the following two reasons:

-- For 8 of UCLA’s 10 championships, it only had to win four tournament games. In other words, getting to the final four today takes the same number of wins it took UCLA to win 8 of those national championships. Krzyzewski has taken Duke to 12 final fours. 

--  It’s no longer possible to stockpile players like UCLA did. For example, Swen Nater sat on the bench at UCLA as Bill Walton’s backup, hardly ever playing, and then went on to 13-year ABA and NBA career. Can you imagine a college player sitting like that in today’s environment? I can’t.

This is not to minimize Wooden’s extraordinary accomplishments. His book “Practical Modern Basketball” is on my bookshelf. One anecdote about Wooden I like is when he told Walton he had to get a haircut. Walton asked what would happen if he didn’t and Wooden famously said, “We’ll miss you, Bill.” Nice.

WisconsinColonial wrote:

[size=100]I think you can argue that Coach K is the most successful men's college coach ever, even compared to John Wooden, for the following two reasons:

-- For 8 of UCLA’s 10 championships, it only had to win four tournament games. In other words, getting to the final four today takes the same number of wins it took UCLA to win 8 of those national championships. Krzyzewski has taken Duke to 12 final fours. 

./s]

Not only 4 games, but it was only one team per conference back then - only the auto bid - so this year’s UCLA and Baylor wouldn’t even be in because they were at large teams. 

Plus, teams were actually arrayed by region back then so UCLA didn’t face any of the East Coast/southern/Midwestern power houses until the final 4.  For a team like UCLA, that was basically a bye into the final 4 because there weren’t many strong programs in the west back then.

They had a lot of wins over Long Beach State, Santa , Clara, New Mexico St type teams to get to the final 4.   Meanwhile, Maryland and NC St and North Carolina were keeping each other from getting to the tourney, and teams like Kentucky and Marquette had to face each other just to get to the final 4 - while UCLA was beating Long Beach St each year. 

No doubt John Wooden was a brilliant coach, but his record is somewhat overrated compared to what modern college basketball coaches have to deal with.

Mark Few -Greatest coach to never win NCAA championship.

Baylor was very impressive tonight. The entire package on both ends. Have to admire how hard they play.

On a separate note, perhaps tonight will put to rest the clownish statements about "America's Greatest Coach" made here. Mark Few is a very good coach but "America's Greatest"? I think you have to win one of these before you can even be considered for that title. Right now, Scott Drew has one more than Mark Few. 

Gwmayhem wrote:

I'm unconvinced that referring to one's accomplishments as being overrated is the same thing as saying that a path towards those accomplishments were easier.  Wooden's teams could only play who was in front of them, even if that meant fewer games or lesser competition than what he would have seen today.  His UCLA teams were so dominant that it would stand to reason that they could have easily won the same number of championships under today's set-up.  Even with more games and better teams, his teams were the best so why conclude that they would have lost any more games than they did?

As for Mark Few's "World's Greatest Coach" title, I would expect nothing less than for the Dude to double down on it.  Something like Gonzaga outscoring Baylor by three points over the game's final 30 minutes.  Another dominant performance if you just take away those first ten minutes.  Surprising that he would appear on this board within seconds after each Zags win but he's nowhere to be found last night or today.    Then again, I guess this is not very surprising at all.

Congrats to Baylor.  They are quite good.  

When someone paints himself into a ridiculous corner by labelling a guy who has never won a national championship as "America's Greatest Coach", it should not surprise anyone if the Dude later pulled a "Houdini" after last night's whipping. Even he must be embarrassed by such outlandish claims which surely he must know have little support in the real world. I am personally very surprised that "America's Greatest Coach" with at least 4 NBA draft choices in his starting lineup was only able to get his team to cut the lead below 10 once (for one possession lasting a total of 25 seconds) in the last.34-1/2 minutes of the game. 

And....he double downed on it.  Shocking.

Where would any of us be without the self-appointed board Nanny to tell us what to think or say about "America's Greatest Coach"?

For the record, the truth is always more interesting than fantasy. As most everyone knows, no one can send anonymous PM's here. 

BrianPaul, I have made a concerted point not to interact with you since you've returned.  And after this post, I will go right back to that position.  Let's set a few things straight.  First, not only have I never private messaged you here or anywhere, but let's be truthful,  You in fact sent me a private message.  Not only did I not respond to it but I've blocked you from sending any future messages. I can't speak for GWRising, because we are two distinct individuals despite your borderline fanatical claims, but I sincerely doubt he would waste his time sending you private messages either.

Which brings me to my next point.  Would you please stop with your very tired, unproven and erroneous claims that the two of us are the same person.  We have debated on a wide variety of topics and clearly will never see eye-to-eye on some of them.  I am respectful of the fact that he brings us information about the program that very few others are either able or willing to do.  Despite our differences, I admire his passion towards the program even if I find that he can not allow himself to be objective at times.  I'd like to think that he appreciates my enthusiasm as well.  You could not be more wrong over this issue (that Rising and I are one and the same) and like your pal The Dude, you continue to double down on points that you are flatly incorrect about.

That brings me to the Dude.  You don't think I've treated him kindly?  What are your thoughts on referring to a Jewish person as a Nazi?  You OK with that?  Am not sure who the two men you are referring to are but I have never told you how much I dislike The Dude or that I wanted to drive him from the old board.  That said, I'll make no qualms about the fact that I do dislike The Dude and I do think this board would be far more enjoyable without his presence.  I find him to be a troll which I will define as purposefully annoying.  I find him to be a liar.  He has been posting under multiple names and yet is the first to accuse others of doing so.  He seems to add very little if anything about GW basketball.  He is repetitive for no other reason than for the sake of being repetitive..  The next intelligent basketball debate or exchange that he has will be his first.

All done.  Fire back if you'd like BrianPaul, or don't.  I really don't care what you have to say on this subject, or really any subject.  

Last edited by Gwmayhem (4/07/2021 10:38 am)