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If you are winning big in the A10, why not stay?
Chaney never left Temple (same with Fran Dunphy, granted Temple left for the AAC) McKillop and Davidson joined the A10, he never left. Mark Schmidt's had a great run for the Bonnies etc.
Shaka preemptively left Texas for a lesser program before being he could be fired after 6 higly disappointing seasons.
Anthony Grant was fired by Alabama.
Archie Miller was fired by Indiana.
Does Mike Jarvis do better staying at GW the next 20+ years? If he had it do over would he stay?
If JC becomes the next big A10 Coach why not stay? the presumption is every successful Coach will bolt for more $, but long term, is that really wise?
Last edited by The Dude (8/05/2021 6:17 pm)
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As Tony Kornheiser, quoting Don Ohlmeyer, says: "The answer to all your questions is: Money"
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Would make more $, staying somewhere in success for 25 years, than getting fired after 4-5 no?
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Because successful people want to be challenged and want to succeed at the pinnacle of their profession, competing against the best of the best. College basketball coaches are hyper competitive people. No way would they, or really should they, stick around to be top dog in a mediocre conference. They would want to see if they could be top dog at a top conference. Its called betting on your self.
This is why I'd never put Mark Few among the pantheon of top level coaches. While he made Gonzaga into a high level program, they play in a garbage conference. He's never had the challenge of playing top competition game after game like Tom Izzo, Coach K or Jim Boeheim did in the Big 10, ACC or Old Big East. He'd play a moderately tough OOC schedule, coast through an easy conference play, then underachieve in the NCAA tournament. What would he have done at a top level school like UCLA, or Indiana? Maybe he would have had the same success there. Maybe he would have won a National title. He never tried, so we'll never know.
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Don't sleep on Rick Majerus, another guy who had tremendous success and passed on a dozen bigger offers over the years. What a career, RIP. WAC and MWC at the time, NCAA Tourney final, brought in top 2 NBA picks, etc. Sure beats going to Texas, not winning a single NCAA tourney game in half a dozen years and then bolting for a lesser program.
Outside of Calipari, did anyone really benefit long term by leaving the A10? (and he jumped first to the NBA from the A10. We'll see about Hurley who appears to have turned around UCONN already.)
As for Jarvis, considering how much success he had in short order in the 90s at GW, hard to imagine he would not have been better off long term staying, lets say through about 2015.
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Thad Matta
Sean Miller
Skip Prosser
Tom Penders
Al Skinner
Oliver Purnell
Jim O'Brien
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This faulty premise seems to assume that if a midmajor coach stays where he is and never makes the jump to a major program, then he will be secure in his position for presumably as long as he'd like. Jarvis took the plunge and it didn't work out. Hobbs and Lonergan did not take the plunge and they eventually lost their jobs too. Am reasonably certain that the numbers of Fews and McKillops (20+ years at the same midmajor without coaching at a major) can be counted on one hand, two hands tops.
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I present the case of Steve Pikiell. He was making probably 400K at Stony Brook. A moribund Rutgers came calling and offered him $8 million over 5 years. People told him no way you can win at Rutgers, Had he stayed at Stony Brook, it might have taken him 15 years to make that kind of money (assuming raises). The advice then was if Rutgers doesn't work out then at worst you will have 8 million and you can go back to coaching at a lower level or take a high paying high major assistant job.
Most of these guys have families and they have to earn when they can. You never know like Gwmayhem says when he window will be slammed shut - it could be while leaving or staying. My advice if you have a chance for a payday grab it. The implicit point is you can earn at least 2x and maybe 3x what you are paid in the A-10 by moving to a Power 5 school. Those kind of increases don't present themselves everyday.
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Stony Brook not exactly the A10.
Premise is highly successful A10 Coaches. Or similarly situated programs
Jarvis of course left BU for GW. It's jumping to the next job I'd question the long term wisdom of.
As for coin:
And yes, BP, Few plays the toughest non conference year after that was just bait, to bypass.
Oliver Purnell bounced from Clemson to DePaul where he was a total disaster, 15-75 in league play
Brian Gregory, from Georgia Tech to South Florida, also a disaster. 23-46 there
Either man could have rode the wave at Dayton. Anthony Grant would be wise to stay this time. Shaka could have. Speaking of left the A10 disasters
Last edited by The Dude (8/06/2021 10:46 am)
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Stony Brook is not A-10 but there a few coaches not earning much more than that - La Salle, Duquesne, Fordham are examples. So from a financial perspective it is not tremendously different.
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Why would it be any easier for Jarvis to win at GW vs BU compared to St. John's vs GW, ignoring the hindsight of knowing how things worked out for Jarvis? In both cases, you're making the move for better pay and the chance to coach and recruit better players, while facing a greater level of competition.
As for Mark Few, his salary as of a few years ago was $1.8 million. There's very little that's "midmajor" about his situation. And, he challenges his team a bit in the OOC schedule (maybe 5-6 games) and then gets to coach in a conference that his teams can easily dominate (though the conference as a whole has improved a bit).
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Ahh, yes, this is a thread for no other purpose than to troll by invoking Shaka's name.
I envision The Dude using a dart board to determine who his troll subject of the day will be.
Online!
Its a combination of GW 509's response (money) and Porter's response (" successful people want to be challenged and want to succeed at the pinnacle of their profession, competing against the best of the best."), Like most everything else in life.
Last edited by Long Suffering Fan (8/06/2021 11:08 am)
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Mike Jarvis would have made more $ staying at GW in the long run
Most of the coaches who left the A10 flopped. Shaka was on top of the world is he now?
$ while important isn't everything anyway. How about building something great. Legacy. Keeping your family in one place. Success.
Chaney did. Brian Gregory could have but chose poorly IMO.
As for Few the goal is the national title. He's gotten to two of them.
How many of these guys even won a single tourney game after leaving? Purnell? Gregory? Shaka? Anthony Grant ?
Last edited by The Dude (8/06/2021 11:42 am)
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The premise isn't why did they leave
It is would they not have been better off in the long run staying
Would Mike Jarvis??
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The Dude is not trolling by posting.
The Dude is trolling by taking 6-7 shots at Shaka on this thread alone.
It doesn't need to be said 6 or 7 times. It doesn't even need to be said once since there isn't anyone here who doesn't know how The Dude feels about Shaka. Or Tom Crean. Or Mark Few. Or Mike Lonergan.
Are you picking up at all, BrianPaul, on how trolling works?
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Well said BP. Engage in a thread or scoll on by. Lose the Ad Hominem attacks on every thread aye?
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BP, I honestly don't care what you do or do not like about me. What I don't appreciate are disingenuous comments made at my expense. There are plenty of posters here who I have differences of opinion with and I do not wish to drive any of them away from this board. In fact, I have respect for most of these posters.
What I dislike are trolls. People who are clearly here to sabotage this board for shits and giggles. You bet I want The Dude gone from this board. Because he's the classic definition of a troll. If he would just stop trolling and act like a regular human being once and for all, then I would have no problem with him.
I don't have any "special friends" here nor do I post under any other name. Other unique individuals are beginning to express their displeasure with the trolling. If enough people do this, maybe some action will be taken. One can only hope.
Go ahead and get your last word in because I know how vitally important that is to you.
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You sure seem to get worked up rather easily, turn to Ad Hominem attacks etc.
I don't quite get why you are so worked up here, 6 years ago I posted Shaka would be better off staying at VCU, you were very worked up about that. Well, he's gone, no NCAA tourney wins. That's it? why is everything so personal for you? Mark Few stayed at Gonzaga and took the team to Two NCAA title games, that seems to get you all worked up too.
He's right quit trying to drive people off the board, there's barely anyone here as it is and we've watched you drive away many people. Rich Maier, Thinker etc.
Same question to the board, did any of the guys mention above get one win NCAA win? and if they are not successful jumping to a Power 5, are they going to actually earn more $ in the long run? St Johns fired Jarvis he went to some school in Florida for a few years, how much $ would have he have earned at GW the last 23 years?
Final question, are any of these guys actually happy not succeeding in the Power 5? The next big A10 Coach, hopefully JC, or anyone, are you really better off running away for a short term pay increase?
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That post shows me just how confused you are Dude. Do you think my reactions are to your opinions? Some of your opinions I am in agreement with. Do you really think that there is anyone out there who doesn't think that Mark Few is a good coach?
And where I am in disagreement with your opinions, my reactions have little if anything to do with your opinions. I have no personal connection to Shaka whatsoever (actually, I do have one but it's pretty distant).
My reactions are due to your incessant and insufferable need to troll. Let's not play dumb here because I realize you know exactly what you're doing. You're seeking attention and the way you're doing it is by being purposefully annoying. You repeat the same things over and over. You're blatantly trying to elicit negative reactions (and yes, I realize I am helping you succeed). Frankly, you mentioned Lonergan's abuse of his players so many times over the past week or so that I couldn't believe that no action was taken against you. It's clear to me that you will be allowed to continue to troll unless enough people voice their displeasure with your trolling. And even then, who knows?
By the way....I've driven away Rich Maier, Thinker, etc.? Good one.