There is some food for thought in the second to last paragraph above.
But to get back on topic,there are two interesting examples here of coaches who stayed in the a10.
One is Martelli who essentially spent his entire (obnoxious) career at St. Joe's. He presumably had plenty of move up prospects in the Nelson/West era.
   The other is our former coach,who turned down triple his salary at BC and was fired.
  So yes,it would be good to stay in one place like Jim Phelan and probably best for a more stable but still uncertain career/lifestyle. But as pointed out,the salary disparities and the potential of being canned in a fickle profession based on what have you done lately also can argue against it. 
Let's please not discuss the specific firing allegations in our case here. Glad to discuss in Rewind if allowed,as it should be.
Frankly those interested should discuss it regularly,preferably in Rewind,because it still affects us everyday. Check this year's schedule, for example.
  But let's try and salvage this teetering thread by discussing it like gents, calmly and academically in reference to anyone (say except Martelli).

Last edited by jf (8/06/2021 4:04 pm)

By this logic, lower level coaches should never leave for A-10 jobs.  Dave Paulsen had a good thing going at Bucknell, but was mediocre at Mason and was fired.  By your logic, based on that one example, no Patriot league coach should ever leave for the A-10.  There is always a risk at leaving one job for another, at any profession.  I think its good to bet on yourself.

There is no guarantee that Jarvis would have sustained his success.  His last recruiting classes weren't nearly as good as the ones proceeding them.  He could have found the same downward trajectory as Hobbs.

Also, I'll give you and GWMayhem something to agree on.  I think Mark Few is overrated.  That's not to troll you.  I think even with his good OOC scheduling (I may have been a little too dismissive in my first thread), his schedules have never been as grueling as the big boys because his conference is so bad.  OOC games against good teams are totally different than blood rivalry games again good teams.

BrianPaul wrote:

So, Dude is trolling by posting?  And you gents are trolling Dude? 

I've read about Mark Few.  I doubt he is fearful of competition. He seems to me like a number of men I have met along the way, who have the talent and connection to do anything imaginable in their professions.  And, yet, they've chosen a different location, profession, lifestyle, woman, auto, whatever. 

Some folks measure their own happiness differently. 

There are better examples than Mark Few.  Use your own imaginations. 

Strangely enough I agree. Could've been a head coach anywhere to prove himself years ago. Keeps where he is in a conference with maybe 2 non-laughable opponents to this day. At some point he needs to be called out imo

It's great that a guy sitting behind his basement computer can call certain former A-10 head coaches "failures" when they didn't have the same level of success after moving up in weight class.. Amazing really. Nobody called anyone a failure when someone messed up on those duplex copies at Kinkos after he was first allowed to advance beyond single sided after having success there. Fair is fair.

And for the record ....

Mark Few Conference Winning Percentage (including WCC Tournament games) .910
Mark Few Non-Conference Winning Percentage .(including NCAA games) = .750

.910 is probably a record for any coach within conference but does explain the gaudy overall winning percentage.

 

No.

Look at JC's old HC Jim Phelan.  Basically never stopped winning at the Mount.  Not in the HOF and you gotta think that staying at MSM his whole career hurt his chances.

Uh, people do realize that Jim Phelan passed away a few weeks ago, no?
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31645410/long-mount-st-mary-coach-jim-phelan-dies-92

1.  Everyone here is entitled to their opinion.
2.  It means nothing that there may be people in this world who are more qualified to offer an opinion, or for that matter, less qualified.
3. It means nothing that the subject of the opinion could not care less about said opinions.
4. This is a message board.  A big part of why many of us are here is to offer opinions.
5. Here's my opinion:  this topic can be broken down into betting on oneself vs remaining content.  If a coach decides to have the type of career that Jim Phelan or Bob McKillop had/has, then he must recognize that the pressures of winning big at a higher level do not outweigh the benefits of substantially higher pay.  They also recognize that they have likely "done enough" where they are at that they don't have to worry about job security (though this is not a guarantee...ask Phil Martelli about this) relative to coaches at higher levels.

However, coaches are competitive by nature and most are likely going to want to bet on themselves.  Keep in mind that most Power 5/Big East schools who hire mid-major coaches are experiencing problems with their programs, which is why there is an opening in the first place.  So a Mike Jarvis or an Archie Miller understand going in that their fan bases are already growing impatient before they've started their first days at their new jobs.  Therefore, they may not be given as much time to turn things around as they would like.  However, they are about to let's say double to triple their current pay, as well as get to recruit and coach more talented players.  A higher percentage of these players will play in the NBA or elsewhere professionally.  This is all very appealing to a coach.  

Plus, if things don't work out at a big program, other attractive alternatives still remain.  Jarvis was about ready to retire but instead got to continue coaching in Boca Raton.  Brian Gregory, who bombed at Ga Tech after a successful stint at Dayton, makes over $1 million annually at USF (South Florida).  Tommy Amaker not only has twice as many NCAA appearances at Harvard as he had at Seton Hall and Michigan combined, but his wife is a Professor at Harvard.  It's highly doubtful that the Amaker's are going anywhere anytime soon.

And then again, Coach K could have coached his entire career at Army but if he had, he'd likely not be known to most as Coach K.  Bill Self's journey took him from Oral Roberts to Tulsa to Illinois and finally to Kansas.  He went from a major program to a premier program where he has a lifetime contract that stipulates that he can't get fired even if Kansas goes on probation.  Mick Cronin went from Murray State to Cincinnati and is now at UCLA where things seem to be going very well.  Crosstown neighbor Andy Enfield led a national sensation at Florida Gulf Coast but since those days, he's won more games at USC than any coach since 1980.

Simply put, there are too many coaches out there that fall under every category (content to stay where they are, bet on themselves and lost, bet on themselves and won) to draw a definitive conclusion that one way of doing things is the right way or the best way.  And, as has been pointed out in this thread, there's no guarantee that being willing to stay content where you are guarantees your continued employment at that school years later.  One of the reasons why coaches are compensated so well at the highest levels is because there are no guarantees.  So even for the coach who bets on himself and loses, maybe he made more money in 5 years than he would have in 10-15 years, plus he can likely find another coaching gig at the level he had been on before making the upward move. 

On this issue, there just isn't a one size fits all answer. 
 

Mt St Mary's is not exactly the A10.

Leaving there for GW does make sense, for most at least. (Via Siena in our case)

Leaving the A10 once highly successful for a Power 5 is what the thread is aimed at.  Wise/unwise?

I would also question whether referring to someone on this board as a troll, when he consistently demonstrates the behavior of a troll, should be considered an ad hominem attack.  This strikes me as being a lot different than calling someone a jerk for no reason.    

 

BrianPaul wrote:

Rising, Mayhem: 
There is only rule...don't be an ass. Trolls, jerks, and anyone who attacks someone else on a personal level are subject to being banned. Period.

 So where do the Dude's incessant attacks on ML fall? Serious question especially when ML is (A) no longer the coach and (B) not here to defend himself.

Last edited by GWRising (8/09/2021 12:01 pm)