Gwmayhem wrote:

Porter71, I understand the sentiment but realistically, I think this is one of those situations where we must first learn how to walk before we learn how to run.  A 9th place finish, particularly if the A10 turns out to have a strong year, would be a credible accomplishment in my mind.  I think it's OK to have this as a short-term goal even if the long-term goals are far loftier.

The dude, it really doesn't seem to matter how many people have a problem with what you say here.  Several have attempted to offer you advice, some even do so rather nicely.  You listen to nobody.  You've read enough times by now that these computer rankings are not meant to be construed as end-of-season forecasts.  Pomeroy flat out says that it takes about a month's worth of data (games played) before his model can even begin to approach reliability.  But, to do this, you have to slot every team somewhere so last season's results take on far more weight today than they will come March.  Just curious...do you realize this is the truth and can't stand to admit you were wrong so you keep doubling down on your erroneous point, or do you really not understand how all of this works?

Even BGF, the guy who makes it possible for all of us to share our thoughts here, asks you to abide by certain rules that you just can't seem to follow.  Less than two weeks ago, he told you that you were wrong about the people who you think have multiple handles on this site, yet you continue to infer that this is happening.  He asked you to stop referring to people by any poster name other than the one they use on this site but apparently, you can't contain yourself.

Finally, he asked that if you can't stop, you should leave the board.  Since you've become so convinced that the destiny of this board is FQ and I having conversations with one another while nobody else is left, I think it would be an interesting experiment if you were to leave the board.  We would then see whether anyone else (besides your own alternative names, you know, should you be doing this)  would also follow you.  It might even be interesting to see whether more former posters might return in your absence.

Sounds like a plan to me.

13th. out of 14
The A10 Writers and Coaches have us 13th, as does Bart Torvik and KenPom. 
Pick after pick came in near the bottom of the league, but those 3 have by far the most weight.

1. So if/when GW does a lot better than that, it will be a pleasant surprise.
2. This goes against 1 man's agenda, to over-state expectations, so as to whine endlessly, which is the only reason plain facts are being challenged.
3. 2 years into the JC era there's as of yet no clear sign the program is moving upward.  Being picked 13th, year 3, that's the actual reason for concern.  Observers would obviously have GW near the bottom of the league at the moment. I think we'll be better but only because I am a GW fan and an optimist. 

Zero need to pretend otherwise, but it happens every year here, the same routine.  

That's all this is, a 1 man agenda.  The last handful of actual unique people still here, obviously see that. That 1 man agenda will clearly turn to "fire this guy" very soon.  first few games of the season.  

Like I said beyond fatiguing. Meant to fatigue out or drive away anyone else. Obviously, and it has.

Last edited by The Dude (10/29/2021 7:36 pm)

Yeah, JC pretty much HAD to tear it down and build it up.  Good for him grabbing some quality local guys and transfers.  Now that he is getting his own guys, we will see f he can coach at this level.  The said, being at the bottom of the A-10 for the first few years is not unexpected, but we should expect to see improvement soon.

The Dude wrote:

13th. out of 14
The A10 Writers and Coaches have us 13th, as does Bart Torvik and KenPom. 
Pick after pick came in near the bottom of the league, but those 3 have by far the most weight.

1. So if/when GW does a lot better than that, it will be a pleasant surprise.
2. This goes against 1 man's agenda, to over-state expectations, so as to whine endlessly, which is the only reason plain facts are being challenged.
3. 2 years into the JC era there's as of yet no clear sign the program is moving upward.  Being picked 13th, year 3, that's the actual reason for concern.  Observers would obviously have GW near the bottom of the league at the moment. I think we'll be better but only because I am a GW fan and an optimist. 

Zero need to pretend otherwise, but it happens every year here, the same routine.  

That's all this is, a 1 man agenda.  The last handful of actual unique people still here, obviously see that. That 1 man agenda will clearly turn to "fire this guy" very soon.  first few games of the season.  

Like I said beyond fatiguing. Meant to fatigue out or drive away anyone else. Obviously, and it has.

I'd say there's one man out there who is trying to make the Guinness Book of World Records for the most times using the phrase, "1 man agenda."

Here's the thing about predictions....none of them carry any weight.  At the end of the season, we will all know how well or how poorly this team performs.  What was predicted in October will have zero bearing on this.  

It's a bit ironic that the guy who keeps suggesting that this team is destined for a 13th place finish considers himself an eternal optimist.  Or, he is having trouble understanding the meaning of words like "consensus" and "optimist."

You guys--by and large--are the most patient fans I have ever encountered. If we don't demand more--from the administration, the coaches, and the players, we won't get more. Stop making excuse after excuse as to why we can't be successful. Plenty of schools smaller than GW in terms of size and resources have been successful for years. IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THIS WAY!

moneybox wrote:

You guys--by and large--are the most patient fans I have ever encountered. If we don't demand more--from the administration, the coaches, and the players, we won't get more. Stop making excuse after excuse as to why we can't be successful. Plenty of schools smaller than GW in terms of size and resources have been successful for years. IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THIS WAY!

Moneybox, you're not wrong but I also think you're not right.  Speaking for myself, I have definitely accepted that we're not a great program right now, and I don't want to feel that way.  I am a glass half-full kind of guy, so I accept the status quo and accept it.  We have had our share of scandals and near scandals in the program, and yet we survive.  We have had mass transferring by players on multiple occasions, and yet we survive.  We have had injuries and changes in administration and we're in a market with bigger brand schools, and yet we survive.

I don't want to accept on-court mediocrity from the hoops program, but what other choice do we have while the program perpetually rebuilds itself.  The NIT championship, the Sweet 16 run, the upset wins over bigger schools...I love those moments and hold on to their memory.  

I love JC's coaching style.  I think he is a good person, a decent human being.  I think the talent in the program right now if very strong compared to the past couple of years.  Yes, I'm patient, because I hold on to the things that are or have been good.

Right now, today, everything is potential.  We have as much chance to win the A-10 and make an NCAA run as anybody.  Right now it's all optimism, and why shouldn't it be? 

A month from now, if we're 3-6 to start the season, then I'll change my expectations and gleefully find the bright spots as we look at 2022-2023.  That's what being a fan is about.  

So, hail to the Buff and Blue, potentially 2021-2022 A-10 Champions and National Semi-Finalists. 

 

Gwmayhem wrote:

Moneybox, first of all, you may be confusing us with some large state school where boosters may have some influence on coaching decisions.  This program simply does not have enough large donors to shed any influence.  Or, let's say what exists is very modest influence at best.

More to the point, anyone who thinks it's a mistake that JC was allowed to return is entirely too impatient.  Obviously, buying JC out with 3 years to go is an impossibility but putting that aside, Year 1 saw him primarily coaching players who did not fit his system and Year 2 was Covid.  While it's true that everyone had to deal with Covid, that misses the point.  A team like SBU that had a veteran presence with a starting five who was very comfortable playing with one another had a huge advantage over an inexperienced team that did not have ample opportunity to come together properly.  This would be true even if SBU did not have a significant talent advantage.

This is why this third season is a fairly critical one.  Missing Ira Lee is very unfortunate but injuries do happen and this simply can not be used as an excuse to afford JC and staff a free pass.  This team must get better and I don't feel that means it has to make the postseason or win a certain number of games.  It needs to start looking the part of a team that's improving.  We have not seen this in two years but it needs to start with this year.  Otherwise, JC will need to have a vastly improved team in year 4, as in a team that at least is contending for an NCAA  bid, in order for GW to consider a contract renewal.  Obviously, all of this is just my opinion.

As usual, comments from GWmayhem that are one that I can agree with. But while we can ignore evaluating JC by looking at our record all we want,  how about we start this season by not losing to the likes of Navy, Hampton, UMBC, Delaware, Bill & Mary, Charlotte, Towson, American and Morgan State -- like we have the last two years.  If we do that and considering the incredible cupcake non-conference schedule, we would have to disappointed with anything less than a  9-4 or 10-3 in the non-conference.
 

Moneybox, not that this is a magic number, but there seemed to be a prevalent feeling when ML lost his job that this would result in a 5 year period before things could really turn around.  Well guess what?  We've now hit 5 years.  Am not sure this is how any of us envisioned it (the hiring and firing of MoJo, the abrupt departure of the AD, the entire dismantling of a roster seemingly with the current coaching staff's blessing, etc.) but five years later, I'm sure we can practically all agree that the time to start getting noticeably better is now.

moneybox wrote:

I hope you guys are right and I'm wrong about the coach this upcoming season. The "turnaround king" he has not been so far. I would, however, ask BGF what he means by "and yet we survive." If he means that we still have a men's basketball program, I would have to agree. I would argue, however, that that is all it means,  No broadcast radio, TV essentially only when the other team warrants coverage, a declining fan base, a blurb in the Post after our games (if at all), no mention of upcoming games in the Post because we don't qualify, a nonfactor in league play, and on and on. Last, you're right about a lack of big donor money coming in. I would point out, however, that the school has plenty of ultra-wealthy alumni, eg, the baseball Lerners, and it would sure be nice if they helped out the basketball program. I suspect, however, that an overall lack of basketball success (with few exceptions in my 56 years of  being a fan) leading to chronic apathy is the cause. Maybe the only thing that can change this apathy is winning--a tall order based on the administration's historical lack of financial and other commitment to the program. Sorry to be so pessimistic, but I'm just weary from too many years of mediocrity or worse. All I ask of you obviously devoted fans is that you stop making excuses for where the program now finds itself. 

On a couple points:

1. I think it was Dan Steinberg who said a few years back that the reason why you see more national vs local sports in the Post is that frankly no one cares about local sports. The clicks on a random article about the NFL are exponentially more than a local story about the upcoming GW/Mason or even Georgetown seasons. That’s also why they cover schools like VaTech and UVA more than the local schools. It’s why you don’t see local politics etc really covered by the Post either. The Post no longer exists as a local news source. It is a National paper like the Wall Street Journal that happens to based in Washington DC.

Basically we would need a repeat of 05-06 or Mason’s run to the Final Four to get any sustained traction in the media. I wouldn’t put much stock in the lack of Post coverage.

2. We’ve had a lack of alumni support for as long as I can remember. Going undefeated in conference to winning the A10 to winning the NIT never changed that. Our most recent big “booster” was Gil Cisneros who got his fortune from the lottery. Also it’s not that our “ultra-wealthy alumni”  are apathetic about the team’s situation because our “ultra-wealthy alumni” also don’t donate to the school generally.  Compared to our peer schools our alumni giving rate is dreadful.

Look back in the archives and I think GWRising and others gave good explanations for why fundraising is so bad. It’s not just an on-court results thing.

SI came out with their rankings: https://www.si.com/college/2021/11/02/ncaa-basketball-rankings-every-team-daily-cover

GW was ranked 172 (11th in the A10)