All that said, I agree nothing will happen and the school has much bigger missteps to correct.

Gwmayhem wrote:

9) Am sorry but it's tough to get overly excited about transfers from Southern Miss, Florida Gulf Coast and the College of Charleston, particularly when these players did not exactly dominate at a lower level of play.  Glad Keegan fills a particular need but unless he can serve as a reliable defensive stopper, he truly doesn't.

Agree with Mayhem on pretty much everything but I think it’s unlikely we’ll get transfers from lower levels who dominate those levels. Those transfers are now going to BCS schools directly. They aren’t bubbling up here.

What we have to hope for re: transfers is someone like Zeke or Cav who blow up once they come down a level or getting someone like Matt Hart or Alex Mitola from way down a level.

For example, I think if Armel Potter we’re transferring today, his stats at Charleston Southern could’ve landed him at at least an AAC school of not higher.

GW0509 wrote:

Gwmayhem wrote:

9) Am sorry but it's tough to get overly excited about transfers from Southern Miss, Florida Gulf Coast and the College of Charleston, particularly when these players did not exactly dominate at a lower level of play.  Glad Keegan fills a particular need but unless he can serve as a reliable defensive stopper, he truly doesn't.

Agree with Mayhem on pretty much everything but I think it’s unlikely we’ll get transfers from lower levels who dominate those levels. Those transfers are now going to BCS schools directly. They aren’t bubbling up here.

What we have to hope for re: transfers is someone like Zeke or Cav who blow up once they come down a level or getting someone like Matt Hart or Alex Mitola from way down a level.

For example, I think if Armel Potter we’re transferring today, his stats at Charleston Southern could’ve landed him at at least an AAC school of not higher.

GW0509, am not suggesting that we need to look at solely the leading scorers or rebounders at lower level schools but the guys we've been bringing in under JC have barely played at their former schools.  Injuries have played a part to be fair but there must be some middle ground here.  

Poog, I have no interest in trashing TV (though the video of her long stroll with PN was not a great look IMO).  It's very hard to know what she exactly knew and did not know about PN so I'm willing to say that she likely did not know a bunch of horrible stuff and chose to stay silent about it.  That said, maybe it would be helpful to learn more about her positive accomplishments during her time as AD.  My limited view suggests that she extended MoJo's contract when he clearly should not have been hired as Head Coach to begin with, she hired JC which to date has not worked out, and that women's basketball seems to have taken a very rough fall without even having some scandal to blame things on.  I also know that softball was a very nice success story.  So, let us know why we should all feel great that she is our AD (beyond the notion that she's a friendly person, etc.), or why she's a great choice to help our basketball teams regain their respectability.
 

It was a long time ago, but vaguely recall talk that Lonergan was in the works when Nero is hired. 
Perhaps he could have derailed it. Hard to remember. Maybe others can chime in, but not sure if it matters. The reason why we frankly suck, as noted above, does have a lot to do with Lonergan and Nero, and GW is hardly covered in glory on that count.
    On Tanya Vogel, she is one of us, so unlike most in any sort of position of responsibility at GW, understands what it is like to be a Colonial (though the Athletic Department may already be punting on the name) and go to GW and have school loyalty.  
   Not sure she had ultimate authority in the hiring of JC, who interviewed with university officials. One major candidate was hideous, and don't think anyone who knows GW history would have pushed it.
    As with any coach, she will have to pull the plug if this hiring doesn't work out. And obviously GW basketball is just one sport. But it is the premier sport and without a decent basketball team at some point, the GW economic and visibility sport engine, as low horsepower as it is, doesn't run.
    Whatever closeness she might have with Nero (she was his senior associate athletic director, though maybe not necessarily first in normal line for the interim position that led to her permanent hiring....
It was a major mistake on her part to be associated with him after Nero and GW parted ways for reasons that have never been fully aired, but you've seen enough video and written evidence to be uncomfortable. What is the long stroll reference?
   Appearing on a public panel with Nero was very bad form. Surprisingly poor judgment from a smart, well-educated person, but not enough to affect her job, assuming it's not repeated. Being one of us, she gets the benefit of the doubt.

Last edited by jf (11/29/2021 5:41 pm)

GWRising wrote:

Here's another thought to consider ,,, while talented many of the players on JC's current roster do not have much playing experience - this may have been overlooked by us as a significant factor. These are the 8 guys playing the most minutes ...

Bishop - has played in 41 career games and 1,040 minutes (essentially SOPH level experience)
Lindo - has played in 78 career games and 1,106 minutes (essentially late SOPH  or early JUNIOR level experience)
Adams - has played in 86 career games and 1,664 minutes (essentially JUNIOR level experience)
Bamisile- has played in 21 career games and only 352 minutes in his career (essentially FROSH level experience)
Dean -has played in 27 career games and 372 minutes in his career (essentially FROSH level experience)
Brown - has played 21 career games and 253 career minutes (FROSH level experience)
Harris - has played in 42 career games and 623 minutes in his career (essentially SOPH level experience)
Freeman - freshman enough said.

One could argue that at least some of the problems we have are due to playing a lot of guys without a lot of playing experience. Just something else to consider other than 100% of the fault lies with JC.

I've considered it Rising.  Sorry but you can't have this both ways.  If you wanted experience, then you hang onto guys like Battle, JNJ, Maceo and Paar and presumably sacrifice talent.  Otherwise, you get the talent realizing that they are not terribly experienced.

Either way, look at the laundry list of OOC schools GW has been losing to under JC, and MoJo before that.  In at least roughly half of these instances, GW should simply not be losing to these schools, regardless of talent or experience.
 

GWRising wrote:

Here's another thought to consider ,,, while talented many of the players on JC's current roster do not have much playing experience - this may have been overlooked by us as a significant factor. These are the 8 guys playing the most minutes ...

Bishop - has played in 41 career games and 1,040 minutes (essentially SOPH level experience)
Lindo - has played in 78 career games and 1,106 minutes (essentially late SOPH  or early JUNIOR level experience)
Adams - has played in 86 career games and 1,664 minutes (essentially JUNIOR level experience)
Bamisile- has played in 21 career games and only 352 minutes in his career (essentially FROSH level experience)
Dean -has played in 27 career games and 372 minutes in his career (essentially FROSH level experience)
Brown - has played 21 career games and 253 career minutes (FROSH level experience)
Harris - has played in 42 career games and 623 minutes in his career (essentially SOPH level experience)
Freeman - freshman enough said.

One could argue that at least some of the problems we have are due to playing a lot of guys without a lot of playing experience. Just something else to consider other than 100% of the fault lies with JC.

I did a preseason interview with Brendan Adams for the Hatchet and asked him how his experience would help an inexperienced team and I was surprised when he pushed back a little, saying they had a decent amount of experience. At least going into the season the team believed they had experience and it would help them in key moments. Obviously that hasn't been the case so far but hopefully it will get better with more time together. 

“I definitely think it could be big for the team. And it's not just me, we got a bunch of guys with experience. From me to Ricky, to Ira, to even JB when he came over, we just got a lot of guys with experience. So I think that's gonna, that's gonna go to the team and help us in big moments.”

Free Quebec wrote:

GWRising wrote:

Here's another thought to consider ,,, while talented many of the players on JC's current roster do not have much playing experience - this may have been overlooked by us as a significant factor. These are the 8 guys playing the most minutes ...

Bishop - has played in 41 career games and 1,040 minutes (essentially SOPH level experience)
Lindo - has played in 78 career games and 1,106 minutes (essentially late SOPH  or early JUNIOR level experience)
Adams - has played in 86 career games and 1,664 minutes (essentially JUNIOR level experience)
Bamisile- has played in 21 career games and only 352 minutes in his career (essentially FROSH level experience)
Dean -has played in 27 career games and 372 minutes in his career (essentially FROSH level experience)
Brown - has played 21 career games and 253 career minutes (FROSH level experience)
Harris - has played in 42 career games and 623 minutes in his career (essentially SOPH level experience)
Freeman - freshman enough said.

One could argue that at least some of the problems we have are due to playing a lot of guys without a lot of playing experience. Just something else to consider other than 100% of the fault lies with JC.

If we are going the transfer route as our main way to get talent on the team, it will always be like this. Every year.

If the coach can’t win with the players he can bring in (because they aren’t good enough, because they aren’t experienced, because they don’t fit together, or whatever), then the coach can’t win.

This is his roster. No excuses.

Best thing we can hope for is that JC turns this thing around this year tto give us some optimism that he can succeed (though even in that best case, we’d all into next year wondering why his teams start the season every year as badly as we’ve been starting second halves this year)

Well if you want to see why JC's teams start slow perhaps inexperience does play a role. Even last year before transfers we were not particularly experienced. And while I agree that if you go the transfer route so quickly that's what you will get, it still might be the elephant in the corner of the room.

I am not saying this excuses the team's performance to date. I am saying it could be a contributing factor and one of several factors. Usually when you lose it is not one thing but rather a number of things - in some games it could be effort, in some games it could be execution, in some games it could be lack of talent, in some games it could be scheme or lack of adjustments, or it could be some combination of things.. Having known JC for a long time, I know the man didn't forget how to coach. But perhaps the talent he brought in was overrated, the pieces don't fit well together, the scheme doesn't fit the talent, etc. For sure some or maybe most of this is on JC (the buck stops with him) and he'd be the first to agree. But let's see if he can adjust things moving forward. I know he is working his ass off to try to get this right - he is a competitor (don't let the calm pleasant personality fool you regarding his desire to win here - there is a lot going on that you don't see). It's a long season and we are not even in December yet. We've seen many GW teams start the season well only to stumble down the stretch. Maybe this year will be the reverse. Maybe not. But I am willing to wait to find out before rendering judgment on the future. Time will tell. We can't undo 2-6 but we can see what happens from this point on in terms of development. JC would not be the first or the last guy to resurrect a season from the ashes in November. And to be honest, nobody in the A-10 so far other than Bonnies and perhaps St. Louis look like teams we can't compete with if we can get this moving in the right direction. 

Last edited by GWRising (11/30/2021 10:20 am)

danjsport wrote:

GWRising wrote:

Here's another thought to consider ,,, while talented many of the players on JC's current roster do not have much playing experience - this may have been overlooked by us as a significant factor. These are the 8 guys playing the most minutes ...

Bishop - has played in 41 career games and 1,040 minutes (essentially SOPH level experience)
Lindo - has played in 78 career games and 1,106 minutes (essentially late SOPH  or early JUNIOR level experience)
Adams - has played in 86 career games and 1,664 minutes (essentially JUNIOR level experience)
Bamisile- has played in 21 career games and only 352 minutes in his career (essentially FROSH level experience)
Dean -has played in 27 career games and 372 minutes in his career (essentially FROSH level experience)
Brown - has played 21 career games and 253 career minutes (FROSH level experience)
Harris - has played in 42 career games and 623 minutes in his career (essentially SOPH level experience)
Freeman - freshman enough said.

One could argue that at least some of the problems we have are due to playing a lot of guys without a lot of playing experience. Just something else to consider other than 100% of the fault lies with JC.

Surely some of the problems could be due to a lack of on-court experience. But the coach brought in these guys. All of them. To the extent that the x and o coaching isn't the problem, it's that he doesn't have a team that (to this point) can play with a coherent strategy, shoot well, or rebound. If he didn't want inexperienced transfer players, he needs a different recruiting system. One that doesn't cause Battle to transfer or JNJ to leave midseason. You touted those (at least the replacements for JNJ) as good for the team because they'd be getting better players. So far, even if the players are better, the results aren't.  Also, if we're going to have an inexperienced team, I'd prefer it not to be a team of players who are all out in a year or two. Adams is done at the end of the year. So are Lindo and Harris. 

They will be replaced with inexperienced Jabari West Jr and presumably some other inexperienced freshmen or transfers without a tremendous amount of experience. Then, next year, we'll complain about th elack of experience becasue JB will only be "a sophmore level of experience" and Bishop will only be a "junior" and Dean and Brown will only be "Sophmores" with a bunch of "freshmen," including Nixon--assuming Nixon stays. And that assumes all the other guys stay.

If JC is going to build a team full of transfers to "recruit over" his freshman recruits, it doesn't make sense to come on the board and claim "inexperience." I'd rather any "inexperience" come with a chance to grow.

I am not sure that it was JC's intention to bring in 9 transfers (now 10) over a 2 year period. I think it was done out of necessity and was more a stop gap plan than a long-term strategy.

That said he did not recruit over either Nelson or Battle. That continues to be an erroneous notion that is posited here. The intention was for Bishop to play with Nelson and for Battle to continue to play a huge role here, but for varying reasons, neither player wanted to stay at GW. In one case ,for reasons unrelated to basketball. 

Also, Adams is not done after this year and neither is Harris at this point (unless he wants to be). Lindo has expressed a desire to go pro but nothing with that is set in stone I believe.
 

JC's initial team (2019-20) included numerous players he brought in: JNJ (his recruit), Battle (his recruit), Sloan Seymour (his transfer), Chase Paar (his recruit), and Shawn Walker (his recruit).

It included  Mezie (a guy he touted in his initial press conference), Maceo Jack, and Amir Harris.

After his first season, Mezie left, Shawn Walker left, and Javier left. Potter graduated, Justin Williams graduated, Adam Mitola graduated, Arnaldo Toro graduated. This left three "unexpected" spots to fill, though I don't think any of those players that left were "part of the future" of the program.

JC then brought in Matt Moyer as a grad student (1 year who would need to be replaced), Brelsford, Lindo, Lincoln Ball, Noel Brown, and Hunter Dean.

For whatever  reason, he then lost JNJ, Brelsford, Ball, and Battle.

He may not have planned to need the transfer route, but he didn't do much to keep JNJ, Brelsford, or Ball.