Skittles wrote:

Patsos would be an improvement over the last couple of years lol. Allegations definitely mean they did it right? We know that one from experience

I mean, Siena was hit with NCAA sanctions so at least some of it was true lol

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/111413306

We probably wouldn’t hire him anyway since he’s still under an NCAA show cause order.

GWRising wrote:

And I would add to the above, you have to understand that I still haven't got "over" what they did to ML. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

I don't like what they did to ML. But what they did to JC, even if it's because a new coach is a "done deal," can't possibly be the same. Nobody threw a coach under the bus with public accusations. What happened was a coach didn't perform well. Even if the reasons for firing him are motivated by hiring another, it's hard to argue that JC did much to keep the job based on results.Sure, another year may have been warranted and nice. Maybe even financially the right decision. But just because Caputo (if hired) had an in, doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve a job and wouldn't do well.

It would be a bit strange to hire Caputo knowing that he is only here for a 4 year stint.  I just don't see him turning down the Miami job when it becomes available.  But what if TV got word that Miami wanted Caputo in a head coaching gig for a few years before he takes over there.


Maybe they want him get some experience being the main guy calling the plays and leading the team before taking over there.  The risk for Caputo is he comes to GW and tanks.  Is 4 years enough time to rebuild GW's program and get to the NCAA's?  I think an NCAA bid would be enough for Miami to hire Caputo after a "successful" 4 year stint at GW.  But what if he comes and GW hovers around .500 or worse?  Miami wouldn't be able justify hiring him on that record.

But it kind of seems like a no lose situation for GW.  Yes, if there is success in 4 years he leaves.  But as has been said, most GW coaches who are successful will leave at some point anyways to go to the bigger conferences.  And right now I will be more than happy with an NCAA bid in 4 years.  Right now we are nowhere.

danjsport wrote:

GWRising wrote:

And I would add to the above, you have to understand that I still haven't got "over" what they did to ML. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

I don't like what they did to ML. But what they did to JC, even if it's because a new coach is a "done deal," can't possibly be the same. Nobody threw a coach under the bus with public accusations. What happened was a coach didn't perform well. Even if the reasons for firing him are motivated by hiring another, it's hard to argue that JC did much to keep the job based on results. Sure, another year may have been warranted and nice. Maybe even financially the right decision. But just because Caputo (if hired) had an in, doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve a job and wouldn't do well.

Didn't say Caputo didn't deserve a job or wouldn't do well ... just not this one. But I believe if you were to know certain things, you would see things in a completely different light with what went down not just recently but as far back as a year or more before. These things impacted program funding, admissions and recruitment. I would say this generally there is a big difference between the normal course of events and doing things that GW knew or should have known would prevent or sabotage success. That is what has me fired up and should have everyone fired up. 

But let me ask you this putting all that aside. It doesn't bother you that we allegedly have a "search process" underway for which the school is likely paying a good sum of money and somebody is claiming the job is wired for a candidate before it even started in earnest? 
 

Last edited by GWRising (3/21/2022 11:06 am)

There seems to be frenzy going on in the Athletic Department today. The hiring may not be Caputo.

1) Have an idea of one factor affecting both sides in the relationship, but perhaps you should come out and say exactly what you are hinting at.
2) The search process seems to be a CYA (Cover Your....) thing. Maybe so a school can claim due diligence. Didn't we allegedly have JC in mind last time.
   Let's not take swipes at Caputo, who unlike JTIII (presumably not in the mix of any sane decider) has done nothing to us. Does anyone think JC was going to stay here if he was anywhere near the "turnaround artist" being promoted? He left Siena after one year. Because of the previous mess, we thought beating us signified something other than our overall crappiness. Anyone who recognizes at least A-10 level talent in freshmen as well as transfers, can coach and motivate decently (in Caputo's case, hopefully learning from Larranaga) and tells it to us at least reasonably straight, is more than welcome--as long as they leave us with postseason success and a reasonable cupboard for a top 75 to 100 program (used to shoot for top 50, but those days are gone for a while). 
    We had the guy who was going to stay a long time. We pissed him away for highly questionable, at best, reasons. Speaking of which:
3) While the chances would be slim to none, leaning heavily toward the latter presumably, Patsos would be worth it just for the ironic amusement value.
 

Free Quebec wrote:

GWRising wrote:

Free Quebec wrote:

Oh, Ben. What a terrible suggestion.

Goes to show you how much of this stuff for insiders, media, etc, is driven by personal relationships.

To that end, I’d love to know the real story of why self-described insider, GW Rising, who never says a bad word about a coach (except Grasso) has been so consistently negative about Caputo. There’s clearly more story to it than he will share, perhaps simply angry at whoever pushed his friend, JC, out, but perhaps more. Will also be interested to see whether, if Caputo is hired, Rising returns to his role of sucking up to the coaching staff and defending at all costs.

To be fair, it would have less to do with Caputo's abilities as a coach than how he would have obtained the job. Let's just say if that were to happen it would very likely be due to one guy (JC) being in effect sabotaged (I will provide the reasons if necessary later) with time left on his contract (and after only 80+ games) so that someone else's buddy gets the job. If we want to be about that at GW, I will take my 30+ year support of the program elsewhere. Hopefully, that will not be the case and my faith in GW can be restored. I was a GW guy long before JC was in college and while I am very disappointed that he was not given at least one more year, I understand the business. He will land on his feet. However, what I can't stand is the thought that this decision may have been influenced for other reasons. So I am in the camp that anybody but Caputo will at least demonstrate that while I might still be disappointed that JC was not given one more year, GW did not make this decision simply to install Caputo as HC. I truly hope the "search process" is not just a smokescreen. I am willing to wait to see what happens but I promise if it's Caputo, I'm out (and I will tell you there are several others who feel exactly as I do).

So I understand right, you don’t have any reason to believe Caputo isn’t the perfect coach, you just don’t like that someone with influence knows him, is pushing for him, and may have pushed JC to bring him

Well it's more than than just someone pushing his guy for the job. That happens all the time. Let me put it to you this way - what if one created conditions or restraints that one knew would likely or maybe even assuredly yield a result to one's liking (e.g. setting someone up to fail)?

Last edited by GWRising (3/21/2022 11:36 am)

Gwmayhem wrote:

FQ, if what you've just summarized is in fact the case, would you be in agreement with this position, would you feel this is an unreasonable position to take, or something in between these two things?

My two cents are as follows:

1) When that someone with influence is the school's CFO, and not a basketball person, that's a bit concerning.  Is TV being strong-armed into offering the job to CC, or was this merely a "make sure you consider CC along with everyone else" plea by the CFO?  

2) If another coach has been forced out, a year sooner than even his most ardent critics realistically considered, does this alter the calculus regarding whether this situation should be considered acceptable?

3) it sounds like GWRising has perceived this to be a strong-armed power play which, along with the Lonergan fiasco, has him so upset and concerned.  I could be entirely wrong about this but this is what it's sounding like to me.

Your point #3 is correct.
 

Thanks Mayhem. That makes more sense, but still not a lot of sense. Any way that you look at NCCA sports, as far as I'm concerned, it's like looking at the way the Mafia worked. Instead of killings, you have firings, so at least you don't have the loss of life!  I'd like to see the legislators (both State and Federal) to really start treating all sports like utility companies, and passing some fair and decent rules and make them follow it, but $$ will never let that happen. (Sorry, kinda moving off topic there!)
 

Free Quebec wrote:

Gwmayhem wrote:

FQ, if what you've just summarized is in fact the case, would you be in agreement with this position, would you feel this is an unreasonable position to take, or something in between these two things?


2) If another coach has been forced out, a year sooner than even his most ardent critics realistically considered, does this alter the calculus regarding whether this situation should be considered acceptable?

.

To your first question I have no idea. Just because the cfo or whoever wants Caputo, that doesn’t mean he’s wrong. I really have no idea how the sausage is made and quite honestly I don’t care. If Caputo is a good coach, I would be totally fine with it; if he sucks then I’d agree with Blue Seats.

As for your point 2, that is a gross mischaracterization. JC needed to go. Great guy, but didn’t have what it takes to win big at this level (at least not at this point in his career(. It was 100% reasonable for him to be let go now - I don’t think anyone thought GW would do the right thing and make the move the move now, but sad to say I’m pleasantly surprised they did.

The only question for me is do they hire the right guy?

Because there’s also the scenario where Caputo is the perfect person (I have no idea if he is or isn’t), but doesn’t get the job because the GW Risings of the world complain about the perception of nepotism, and we hire someone worse for appearance sake.

So basically, if he’s leading the pack because the CFO or whoever wants him, then all I care about is whether the CFO is right. Because he could be.

I think you missed my point. I'm not upset because they fired a guy I know and like and want to bring in a guy I don't know as well but do know somewhat. I'm upset because there is significant (and mounting evidence) evidence that JC may have been undermined from the jump which contributed to him not being as successful as most here would have liked. It is one thing to say well the current guy isn't working out as well as we hoped and we think we have a better guy to replace him. Happens all the time in sports. It's entirely something else to help create the conditions for failure with the hope that the roadblocks will be insurmountable and nature will take its course. Let me ask you this - would you not be upset if you learned that someone inside may have actively worked to undermine GW's success on the court during the past 3 seasons? That question is independent of whether you think JC or Caputo or anyone else should be the coach.