Big time college athletics have long been a cesspool of underground dealing and exploitation.
Never really applied to us, of course, as the most recent alleged payments were a whopping $60 a pop.
    But while love all things Miami now, something is really wrong with this, before someone has played a minute at a school.
   Getting money from jersey sales is one thing. This does not have a good look at all.
And dooms college athletics for most schools.

GW Alum Abroad wrote:

I just threw up in my mouth. What is the point of college sports now? Might as well just convert to a club sport system like in Europe and South America where teams carry the names of a university but really have little else to do with the academic institution.
$800,000 is way out of GW´s salary options, and if it does not result in butts in seats in Miami it might bankrupt that program, too (Larry Czonka was promised lots of dough to go to the WFL, but I don´t think he ever got a fraction of what he signed for). 

The thing is the "salary" won't bankrupt the program because it's not being paid by the school.  It's being paid by a very rich alum who sees the athletic success of their alma mater as more important than any other use of that $400k/year.  I'm sure GW has rich alums out there who could afford to do the same thing if he/she wanted to. I think right now there's just stupid money being floated around and soon enough a lot of these collectives are going to realize they are wasting money on marginal players who bring no value to the advertisers they claim to be representing.

It's actually a really good deal for the schools because as long as they don't collude with the NIL collective they can always claim plausible deniability.  
 

Last edited by GW0509 (4/24/2022 7:57 pm)

I understand about the kids rights to earn money, but does anyone really believe that paying someone 800K to play on his college basketball team is either good or healthy for the sport?

cagwu wrote:

NIL is the new NLI.

You need a coach that knows how to operate in this new landscape. Should all be above board.

The "amateur student athlete" farce was always uncompensated labor that enriched coaches and universities. This changes the calculations.

This sort of deal in Miami shows that Caputo was part of a well-oiled NIL machine down there and fully expect GW to do the same in order to compete.

The real question will be how much that nets out to each player on average inside P6 and outside P6. And how does GW enable being in the P6 zone if it still wants to compete.

Adapt or die. Just win, baby. No one playing for prestige. Playing for money and the possibility to play for more money (NBA).

I’m not sure there are boosters or businesses willing to pony up 6 figures to bring players to GW.

cagwu wrote:

NIL is the new NLI.

You need a coach that knows how to operate in this new landscape. Should all be above board.

The "amateur student athlete" farce was always uncompensated labor that enriched coaches and universities. This changes the calculations.

This sort of deal in Miami shows that Caputo was part of a well-oiled NIL machine down there and fully expect GW to do the same in order to compete.

The real question will be how much that nets out to each player on average inside P6 and outside P6. And how does GW enable being in the P6 zone if it still wants to compete.

Adapt or die. Just win, baby. No one playing for prestige. Playing for money and the possibility to play for more money (NBA).

 
Cagwu has the concept down right. Alas.
    But the question is why call it college basketball?
It would be a lot cheaper,compared to a deal like this, to have the Wizard's G-league team play in the Smith Center. Salaries generally a fraction of $800,000 for one player. Much cheaper.
  Not sure they even get some of the fancy amenities college players want now.
Play level would actually be substantially higher,like a College All-Star team.
   We could dispense with the antiquated notion these are student athletes and do away with time-consuming study hall,worrying about exams,etc.
    The Post sports section could continue to just ignore us,like they alsodo the Washington go league team.
   Seems like a win-win idea.

Last edited by jf (4/24/2022 10:00 pm)

My lack of knowledge regarding NIL may shine through here, but I thought that for athletes to receive NIL payments, they had to at least give the appearance that they were doing something to earn it besides attending school.  Appearing in a commercial or otherwise endorsing a product, signing autographs, becoming a social media influencer.....something!  Unless something has been left out of this report, this strikes me as nothing more than "we're going to pay you nice money to play for Miami".  I just don't believe this is what anyone had in mind when NIL rules were established.

Gwmayhem wrote:

My lack of knowledge regarding NIL may shine through here, but I thought that for athletes to receive NIL payments, they had to at least give the appearance that they were doing something to earn it besides attending school.  Appearing in a commercial or otherwise endorsing a product, signing autographs, becoming a social media influencer.....something!  Unless something has been left out of this report, this strikes me as nothing more than "we're going to pay you nice money to play for Miami".  I just don't believe this is what anyone had in mind when NIL rules were established.

I think it was Ohio St (may be wrong) that used to have its players "paid" $1,000 to "mow" boosters lawns during the summer, neverminding that some of said boosters lived in apartments in Cleveland. Washington in the 1980´s got caught promising football recruits summer "jobs" at car dealerships that included new cars as part of the pay package.
The NIL was intended to compesante players for things like ads on the sides of buses with their pictures and video game licensing money that otherwise went to the school (if anyone). But like most things NCAA, it has turned in to an out-of-control cash cow that benefits very few. (Seriously, a better poll question to ask is: which is more morally bankrupt, FIFA or the NCAA?)
 

Last edited by GW Alum Abroad (4/25/2022 12:27 pm)

One of our board members, Merrick, posted a question inside another thread.  I think it deserves its own topic.

The question he posed was how one might begin an NIL Collective, a la Wichita State.  A quick online search took me to this site:  Extra Points with Matt Brown (extrapointsmb.com)

I can't speak to the expertise offered on the site, but the topics are clearly aligned with answering this and other related questions.  There's a pay wall to read the full articles, but if someone here is serious about it, I thought this might be a useful starting place.  

I've shared below the part of one article on the site, but only the parts that are available without being a subscriber.  Perhaps this is of interest to the board:

"At this point, almost every P5 program has at least one NIL collective raising money for their athletes. Several schools have more than one collective. Shoot, by the time you finish reading this newsletter, somebody, somewhere, will have probably started another collective.

I've written about how these entities can vary significantly in sophistication. Some groups, after all, are essentially just message board dads passing the proverbial hats. Others are full-fledged, professionalized sports marketing agencies.But as of right now, [i]most of them are registered as LLCs. While a handful of collectives are explicitly trying to operate as for-profit businesses, the majority are functioning as Not For Profits. A fan (or business) contributes money, the collective takes a small percentage off the top to pay for overhead (typically something between 10-20% right now), and the athletes get the rest. No shareholders, no dividend checks, no actual profits.[/i]But a handful have incorporated themselves differently. A handful of these collectives have been incorporated as non-profits, often claiming status as a 501(c)(3) These entities are exempt from federal income taxes, and donations to these groups, unlike those to LLCs, are tax-deductible."

[size=100]From another article on the site:
"A collective attempts to greatly simplify the NIL dealmaking process, while also involving another group of stakeholders, fans. Rather than each athlete trying to set up deals individually, a collective pools money from different brands, fans and boosters, and then allocates it to athletes who opt into the collective, in exchange for brand work and social media appearances. Brands get access to athletes they might not otherwise have, fans can (legally) financially support their favorite athletes, and more athletes get access to NIL and networking opportunities.  On paper, it's a win, win win."

Finally, here's a link to a full article about NIL in general:  [/size]The NIL market isn't running efficiently. Here's why: (extrapointsmb.com)


 

Both unsurprising and disturbing news.  It was one thing when coaches became fixated on bringing in shinier objects, i.e. transfers and freshmen, to supplant their current players.  Now, the new player who has done nothing for the new school is getting paid to attend, ahead of the guy who was instrumental in helping to lead his team to the Elite 8.  

It's a shame it's come to this, but I don't think Isaiah Wong is wrong at all.

Thanks for posting BGF. 

The good news for GW is that at the moment it does not appear that any other A-10 school has a collective independent of the school--except for perhaps St. Louis (see below)  It's important to distinguish university supported NIL deals.  University deals are still subject to a host of NCAA rules and could bring into play other legal issues in this murky new world such as Title IX and employer/employee issues with college athletes. Independent entities are loosely akin to 527 Super PACS (for those in our political DC world).  That is, they cannot coordinate with universities, but it is hard to believe there is no common understanding of needs and communications. 

The independent collectives are the ones that can generally outline potential pay opportunities for players if not make a direct signing themselves.  There are no clear or defined rules on how collectives can operate.  They can sign specific player for a certain amount if that player attends a particular university and they can take a cut of NIL earnings (e.g., come here, and we will pay you $1 million up front, but we get 50% (pick your number) of any NIL revenue or future endorsements you secure--or recoupment if you leave the school).  There can be standard contracts or tailored ones.  There is no standard and better players are now being repped by agents.   

The fear again for a mid-major like GW is that the imbalance towards the Power 5 grows larger.  Solid players that might consider transferring down from a Power 5 or up from another mid-major or lesser conference will have more dollar opportunities at a Power 5/BCS school because those schools have the alumni resources to form independent collectives and will need them to remain remotely competitive in football.  Football collective resources from traditional football powerhouses will trickle into basketball, so schools like Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, BC, Rutgers, Nebraska, Northwestern, Penn State, Mississippi, Stanford, etc. should have a lot of money to keep college kids interested in staying--or luring anyone who emerges at GW to make the jump.            

Here is what folks are saying on the Rhode Island message board: https://keaneyblue.com/viewtopic.php?t=9259&start=50

St. Louis: https://www.inflcr.com/2022/04/20/local-billiken-nil-exchange/

Last edited by Merrick (5/01/2022 6:03 pm)