1 of 1- Gwmayhem
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GW's Current Top 100
Five years ago, GW announced it's top 100 players of alltime to commemorate its 100th season of playing college basketball. This will be a tough exercice as most of us will likely be unfamiliar with some of the names on the list. But nevertheless, the assignment is to determine which players, starting with the Lonergan era since this is where the cutoff for making the original list appeared to be, should be considered a top 100 alltimer.
To start, here are the bottom 20:
80) Bill Knorr
81) Edsel Gustafson
82) John Koniszewski
83) Rodney Patterson
84) Bill Brigham
85) Moti Daniel
86) Darryl Webster
87) Bob Lindsay
88) Mike O'Reilly
89) Steve Frick
90) Howie Bash
91) Regis Koundjia
92) Tom Tate
93) Art Cerra
94) Omo Moses
95) Joe Dooley
96) Antoine Hart
97) Howard Hoffman
98) Mike Brey
99) Garland Pinkston
100) Kevin Peter Hall
And, for some more recent, additional context:
74) Omar Williams
73) Mike Jones
72) Curtis Jeffries
71) Wilbert Skipper
Let's not discuss GW's rankings or players that came before Lonergan. In other words, let's assume for argument's sake that GW got it right with its rankings. Please also note that there are transfers on the top 100, even at least one player who only played at GW for 1 season. So, someone like Mo Creek should not be penalized for only playing one season here though it's up to you to decide how to weight this (or to weight this at all). And, what matters is what they did at GW, not what they may have gone on to do or what they did prior to arriving at GW.. That said, I think the following players are automatics for the top 100:
Zeke Armwood
Jameson Battle
James Bishop
Tyler Cavanaugh
Maurice Creek
Patricio Garino
Kevin Larsen
Joe McDonald
Kethan Savage
Yuta Watanabe
That's 10 so let's say goodbye to the current holders of spots 91-100. Any debates so far?
Now, here's a list of other players which are more questionable entries:
Joe Bamisile
Jair Bolden
Brayon Freeman
Maceo Jack
Ricky Lindo, Jr.
Alex Mitola
Jameer Nelson, Jr
Terry Nolan, Jr
Armel Potter
Arnaldo Toto
DJ Williams
I omitted guys like Jordan Roland who began to come on at GW but really exploded at Northeastern, Colin Smith who progressed far more at UCF than at GW (IMO) or Kevin Marfo who again excelled at Quinnipiac but not at GW.
So, of these additional names, do any belong in the Top 100? Have I omitted anyone by mistake?
- GW0509
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Re: GW's Current Top 100
This is interesting. I definitely would not include any of the "questionable entries" although Lindo may have an outside shot depending on how he does this year. Toro could've had a shot but those injury plagued final years really hurts his case. His junior year was shaping up to be a monster.
I'm not sure I would necessarily say Savage is a lock in my eyes. Going off numbers alone he probably is in the top 100 but whenever these sort of lists are developed I like to think of the story test, ie, "can you tell the story of GW basketball w/o mentioning them." I know he played on the tournament team but I think he really gets dinged transferring out for his final season. When I think of the ML years I think of Creek and Cavanaugh way more than I do Savage even though they were transfers and Creek was only here for one year.
There truly was a Core Four with Larsen, McDonald, Garino, and Savage, and its a shame Kethan wasn't there for the NIT win. Maybe we make it back to the NCAAs if he sticks around?
- Gwmayhem
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Re: GW's Current Top 100
I'm going to give this thread a bump, not only because it did take me some time to compile, but also because it represents the exact type of discussion which we collectively conclude is best served during the offseason. Granted there aren't many of us here these days, but hopefully enough to warrant some good natured debates.
Question to GW0509, do you think your opinion might be different had Kethan not transferred away from the program?
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Thread Starter- GW0509
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Re: GW's Current Top 100
Gwmayhem wrote:
Question to GW0509, do you think your opinion might be different had Kethan not transferred away from the program?
Based on projections, yeah probably? I mean, he was averaging 12-13 PPG his sophomore and junior seasons. I assume he takes most if not all of the minutes that Mitola and Jorgensen got on the 15-16 team and probably averages roughly the same PPG as Garino (14). I think his presence on the team probably tips the scales in a few of the games
Cincinnati -- Lost by 5. Mitola and Jorgensen combined for 3 points in 31 minutes.
St. Louis -- Lost by 3. Mitola and Jorgensen combined for 7 points in 25 minutes.
Dayton -- Lost by 7. Mitola and Jorgensen combined for 8 points in 43 minutes.
Bonnies -- Lost by 7. Mitola and Jorgensen combined for 0 points in 20 minutes.
VCU -- Lost by 4. Mitola and Jorgensen combined for 8 points in 28 minutes.
Kethan being a contributing factor to (likely) two NCAA-bound teams would make him deserving of being a Top 100 player.
Last edited by GW0509 (8/02/2022 7:48 am)
- 22ndandF
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Re: GW's Current Top 100
Gwmayhem, I think Yuta, Joe and Garino and the three transfers, Cavanaugh, Armwood and Creek all deserve serious consideration for top 100. If it were up to me, all six of them would be in. I think Savage is the the most worthy of the questionable entries, but I'd still vote no on him. If he stayed and remained on his trajectory, I think he'd probably crack the top 100. GW0509 provides a very nice analysis.
If you agree about some (or all) of these six players being in the top 100, which of the 20 or so players on your 80 - 100 list would have to be removed?
Last edited by 22ndandF (8/04/2022 9:11 am)
- Gwmayhem
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Re: GW's Current Top 100
Before I address 22ndandF's question, I do want to point out a small trend. It appears both the school (through its actual Top 100) and the few responses here are very welcoming of transfers for making the top 100 but perhaps less so of players who transferred away. Guys like Brian Magid, Gerald Jackson, Bill Brigham, Mike Brey and Regis Koundjia all transferred in and made the list. Guys who left early to turn pro (Yinka, JR) made the list. Guys who prematurely left school (SirValient, Mo Rice) made the list. I believe that Lasan Kromah may have been the only player who transferred away from GW to make the list and he was a grad transfer who earned his undergraduate degree at GW. (It should be noted that I am very unknowledgeable about many of the old-timers.) So I mentioned Kethan and Jameson Battle as two top 100 players and I am wondering if a bias exists against them for transferring away? Agree that GW0509 did an excellent job at explaining his rationale regarding Kethan.
As for 22ndandF's question, again, I am a bit handicapped in that it's impossible for me to compare players I am familiar with against those I am not. The 10 players I identified as being "automatic" in my mind would replace 91-100. The next group of players I listed are all much "iffier" in my book. This means removing names like Regis (who was an important role player and defender, but not the player that Hobbs advertised), Omo, Antoine (sorry if you're reading this), Joe Dooley and Mike Brey among others.
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Thread Starter- GWRising
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Re: GW's Current Top 100
Personally, my rule would be you either had to finish your undergraduate degree at GW or your last collegiate game (for a grad student or someone who played multiple years but did not graduate (maybe a few credits short)) was in a GW uniform for consideration. I would not include Savage or Battle under that criteria.