If a coach has a career 474-226 record, won a Div III National Championship, won a NIT Championship, was 6 time conference coach of the year, and was first or tied for first in conference 12 times, would that qualify for HOF?

Last edited by Mike K (9/26/2022 7:44 pm)

Mike K wrote:

If a coach has a career 474-226 record, won a Div III National Championship, won a NIT Championship, was 6 time conference coach of the year, and was first or tied for first in conference 12 times, would that qualify for HOF?

Absolutely should. Especially in a school's HOF where he gave them the only championship I see them realistically ever winning.

I disagree.  REALLY bad behavior disqualifies you from consideration, especially when you take a seven-figure settlement check! I am a huge fan of his coaching ability, and was a fan of his. When all the crap came down, I tried to be neutral in that but he and Nero shared some blame. But when he wrote me a nastygram on Twitter about two months ago - for no good reason - and yes, it was him, based on some of the things he said, he changed my opinion of his for the negative.

Bad behavior should not be rewarded; thus, the Pete Rose analogy.  He does not belong in the GW  Basketball HOF.  The TEAM does!

Last edited by keithgreene (9/27/2022 10:50 am)

There is quite a bit to disagree with you about Keith.  I'll preface this by saying that if your view is based on the nastygram you received, then I obviously can't be in a position to healthily debate this since I am not privy to what he said.  He is very obviously and very rigfhtfully (IMO) bitter towards his dismissal and subsequent ouster from the coaching profession.  That of course would include just about anyone that was unsympathetic to his position regarding this whole mess, then or now.

But when you consider what his "really bad behavior" may have been, it should be noted that at least according to Deadspin:

his verbal abuse was not too bad at all, and no worse than that of plenty of coaches, according to former GW player and coach Bob Tallent (who remains close to the program)

his discusing Nero with his players, while arguably inappropriate, could at least be somewhat justified based on Nero's disgusting behavior which directly impacted his team

if his behavior was so abhorrent, why is GW even offering a 7 figure settlement?

It does seem easy to presume that ML was fired by GW before the school found out exactly what Nero was up to, subsequently rid themselves of Nero as quickly as possible once this came to light, and then had egg on its face when ML was about to initiate a wrongful termination lawsuit.

That said, most Hall of Fames I am familiar with base their criteria on a person's on-field (on-court, etc.) performance as long as they did not cheat to enhance this performance (Bonds, Sosa, etc.)  .  OJ Simpson remains in the college and pro HoF's.  Rogers Hornsby was a member of the KKK who was also a known gambler (horse races).  Whitey Ford admits to "doctoring baseballs"  but this was somehow overlooked.  Ford admitted to this after he was elected.  Cap Anson refused to play against black players.  Ty Cobb was essentially a miserable human being.  All in the Hall.

When you consider the recent proliferation of sports gambling in this country, it's surprising that Rose is still being banned.  He never bet against his team as a player or manager which in my mind would truly be THE cardinal sin.  Of course, the real reason for his continued ban is because he lied about his gambling and has shown no remorse.  I suspect that Rose will be entered into the HoF within 3 years of his death.  There will be a prevailing sentiment that his on-field accomplishments are too much to disregard but baseball will not give him the satisfaction of this honor while he is alive.

As for Lonergan, GW will never allow him to be inducted.  What he truly deserves is not so much the HoF as it is to have never been fired in the first place.
 

Just for clarity:

The thread is asking who might or should be inducted into The National Basketball Hall of Fame

McKeown, Brey, Shawnta, Jarvis, Jonquel Jones, Taj, Holup etc etc

The other question was, other than Tom Penders and Red do we currently have others in?

It won't happen, of course, but it's a nice thought that the program would someday do the right and
decent thing.
   I don't know what ML wrote to Keith and it may not be nice to a dedicated GW supporter. Also don't
know what prompted the exchange. But will say to Keith, who certainly seems quite sincere and a real fan, if we honor the team, who coached and recruited them?
  And let's be blunt: ML was handed a professional death penalty, while a lot of things were covered up. He's more than earned any residual bitterness he has. The gigantic payoff may have made him more than whole financially, but what happened to him and the gag clause imposed by GW destroyed him professionally.
   The full story hasn't even yet been revealed and it doesn't speak well of GW's actions--or lack thereof.
   Mike Lonergan lost his career in his prime, with some accusations that are horrible for any human--and they just turned out to be plain wrong, as shown by Deadspin and some of 
those literally cited in the alleged episodes, including the Seton Hall player.
  Moreover, he lives his life and his family's in direct contradiction of some of the allegations, furthering
the hypocrisy--and ironically, political correctness of these charges.
  This whole episode stunk, for numerous reasons.
It targeted a man who did nothing wrong that was ever proven in public. If you've got the goods,
show them, so we can consider it. The whole affair covered up the behavior of someone else that would a national scandal if it was either revealed or even if mentioned in another context.
   The administration on that signed off on this bears its shame.
  So yes, Mike Lonergan deserves an apology, a public ring ceremony, a place in the Hall of Fame, and should have been reinstated, barring any real evidence actually being revealed. While that's not going to happen, let's stop erasing him from GW history.
      This whole episode stunk big-time.
And for those who think the topic has played out and we shouldn't mention this on a GW basketball board, the Knapp/Maltzman era turmoil is the primary reason why that stench hangs over the basketball program today.
  Look at our record in the past six years. And we are literally talking about dropping down to D3.
  So, yes, we need to talk about it.
And GW needs to do something different from the usual hiding things and move to heal the program from what happened, including to ML.

ML is already in Catholic's HOF (I believe).

The last 2 coaches we hired were not successful, not due to their ability but due to the self inflicted turmoil our university continues to have and due to a failure of an AD. With the settlement he received, ML would rather volunteer coach his kids.

I hope Jessica Krug gets into the GW Hall of Fame (back in the news recently). She's the white GW professor who fooled the GW admin into thinking she was black for over 10 years!

GWRising wrote:

22ndandF wrote:

GWRising wrote:

First, ML should definitely be in the GW HOF at a minimum. Period. The Pete Rose analogy is not even close.
Second, Skittles is correct the 2016 NIT Championship will likely be the only national championship GW ever wins in men's basketball at least at the D1 level.
Third, ML should get a lifetime achievement award from GWHoops for having to deal with the Dude's non-stop campaign of nonsense and trolling. ML obviously lives rent free in the Dude's pea brain which means he takes up almost all the space.
 

I happen to agree that ML was an excellent coach and, from what I know, was wrongfully terminated, which I assume is why he received a nice settlement. 

I hope coach Caputo has great success.  But, if he fails, is there any scenario that Lonergan would come back to GW? For example, lets say GW offers a public apology to ML, which I think they should.  Would that, plus a competitive contract, be enough to get Coach Lonergan back to GW?

 

 I can't speak for ML but I would think there is virtually no scenario in which ML ever associates with GW again. His coaching reputation has been totally and unfairly ruined by GW. Why would he ever want anything to do with GW again?

Not directed at you 22nd and F but with all this focus on ML's actions as coach, does anyone ever think to ask the question of why PN can't get a job in college athletics? And does the answer to that question have something to do with with whether or not ML was unfairly treated? I think we focus on the wrong actor here.

There's no need to ask the Nero question, GWRising.  Unlike ML where JF correctly asks for some proof if any exists (as to why ML was fired), in the case of Nero, we have all seen the video evidence.  Not really a small difference, is it?
 

Hatchet Man wrote:

What about Yinka? You know, the Sports Illustrated Freshman of the Year who carried our team to the Sweet 16? Certainly in death his sin of leaving early to support his family should be absolved.

I'd vote for Shawnta first , with the longer career, he also won a National award (the Pomeroy Naismith Award)  and appears on several all time National lists (again this thread is about the National Hall of Fame)  But Yinka worthy of some consideration yeah!

Taj was a 1st team all American, Jonquel an incredible player very high standards for player only careers

I do think you have several Coaches who are eventual locks to join  Tom Penders and Red.    Brey, McKeown, etc.

What about Jarvis?  Like Penders he took 3 programs to the NCAA Tourney (Penders took at least 4)  like Penders he took a program to the Elite 8.  like Tom Penders he took at least two programs To the Sweet 16.   

 

I was thinking basketball players or Coaches for GW. 
Jerry I take it was an Undergrad he went to law school elsewhere

Didn't plan to include alums who neither played nor Coached at GW but I'd imagine David Falk is also in or will be?

Mike Jarvis has got to be in soon right???

that resume compares very favorably with HOFer Tom Penders

Last edited by The Dude (9/27/2022 10:07 pm)