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So sure, times change and I suppose with the reliance on metrics such as KenPom and the Net, the rules can be subsequently altered. Nevertheless, I am left to conclude that no matter what GW does with its schedule, if you are hell-bent on defending GW and its scheduling philosophy, you can find a way to do so.
In earlier times, when GW was competing for postseason berths annually, the mantra seemed to be that nobody worth their salt wanted to play GW. They certainly were never going to play at Smith Center and even scheduling games on the road was problematic. If a top 25 or 50 major program scheduled GW on their home court, the scenario was that if they won, then they did what was expected of them...beat a midmajor at home. And if GW pulled off the upset, then the loser would contemplate how stupid they were for scheduling that game in the first place. For that major, there was nothing to gain and everything to lose.
Today, GW does not represent nearly as formidable competition. The likelihood of winning on a major's home court is substantially less today than it was 20 years ago. Therefore, one would think that we should be able to schedule 2-3 road contests (let's call it 2 since we are also playing in the MTE) against higher quality opponents. Are the bluebloods really concerned with losing to GW, given all of the examples I cited from last season featuring other A10 schools scheduling such games. La Salle's experience playing at Duke last year wasn't so miserable as to prevent them from playing at UNC this season.
And yet we're supposed to believe that we can't attract such opponents because the win over GW does nothing for them? No, I do not believe that's what happening here. I think CC's general scheduling philosophy can be summed up as follows:
1. Play far more home games than away/neutral, regardless of how bad these opponents are.
2. No one-offs or games without some kind of return game.
3. Thus far, no home and homes against higher quality midmajors. (Hofstra was on the books under JC. AU and ODU, and I suspect we'll be playing ODU at home next season, don't fit this definition. Don't get me wrong about AU, I think it's great from a local rivalry perspective to play them. I am taking about games against midmajors who are perennially top 150 programs. These games seem to be missing with the exception being at a MTE.)
The fact is that many GW fans, myself included, were all over Hobbs for playing a soft OOC schedule and yet his schedules were quite a bit more competitive than CC. Maybe it's just that there are far fewer of us here but it occurs to me that CC is getting a major pass in comparison.
I will again bring this back to the group of people who this ought to matter the most...our players. Ask them if they prefer a home game against Mercyhurst or a road game at UNC. What's more satisfying, a 3 point win against NJIT or a 3 point loss at Seton Hall? Which of those outcomes instill greater confidence moving forward? Our players deserve the opportunity to play on a big stage more frequently than our latest OOC schedules are providing. These guys are competitors; they want to be challenged and they want the opportunity to generate headlines even for one night.
I agree that what's done is done and the hope is that an improved team will lead to an improved schedule (although I suspect we'll be going back to the "who wants to play us, we're a legitimate threat to win" arguments that we heard two decades ago). Of course, we'll all happily cross that bridge once we get there.
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The sad fact is that GW cannot put significant number of people in the Smith Center without the assistance of our opponant's program or free food to the students.. Barring free food, the likes of our opponants these past few seasons are going to continue to draw 800-1800 per game into the Smitty. There are games in which there appear to be maybe 300 people in the arena 5 minutes before tipoff. Playing lesser competition does not help us in any manner other thatn to give the newer players a chance to develop some and pad overall player and team stats. Conversely, it generally does not prep the team for conference play, hurts us in promoting the program to potential recruits, has to hurt overall attendance, including season ticket sales and does not add any excitement to the games. And to the extent that it matters, does not help us any in our overall rankings. Honestly, I almost felt like we were sold a bill of goods last season. We ere lead to believe the team may have been decent by beating a bunch of OTC patsies when the reality was this was a bad team that finished dead last in the conference. Nothing puts a buzz about a program (and thereby increases attendance) like a meaningful game or a more worthy opponent. Sadly, the deck seems stacked against us returning to the thrilling days of yesteryear (age check) until such time as we can figure out the schedule. I will continue to go to all the games because that is what I have been doing for the past half century, but admittedly, even I can only get so excited playing against the likes of North Carolina A & T or UVa-Wise. When the best part of the game is the half time deserts at the President's Club... I didn't even know that there was a town named Wise, Virginia, yet alone there being a college there. Jeez...if you have to play a D-11 opponant, at least make it UDC or Bowie State. (Enough rambling for now)
Last edited by Long Suffering Fan (9/11/2024 10:46 am)
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I would be interested in blindly asking students in Kogan Plaza if they would rather play the following schools vs. who have on the schedule:
Youngstown State
Purdue Fort Wayne
St. Thomas
Austin Peay
Because all those schools are at least 100+ KenPom spots better than North Carolina A&T. We'd be "better prepared" playing against KenPom teams ranked 130-200. Yet I don't think they would attract any more students to show up than would show up to see NC A&T, Lafayette, NJIT etc. The casual student fan is first and foremost looking to be entertained with dunks and 3 pointers on a random November/December weeknight. It's why big schools play Mississippi Valley State over and over to start the season.
The biggest problem with last year's schedule is the fact that our freshmen played like freshman against teams we should regularly beat by 15-20. DMVPiranha posted about his concerns with CC's decision to go young last offseason vs. bringing in more vets. I think some of that has to do with CC not anticipating the unlimited transfer rule, but it's a valid criticism (compare how Tony Skinn has gone about the transfer portal in his first two years at Mason vs. us).
I also think people are not appreciating how a huge chunk of that losing streak is a result of losing 2 of our best 3 players to prolonged injury, something that is entirely divorced from our OOC schedule. Hypothetically, say we played a tougher OOC schedule last year and go 9-4 instead of 11-2. We then have the same exact injuries occur during conference play, so our final record is 13-19 as opposed to 15-17. Is the trajectory of the program any different? Is finishing like 190 in Kenpom all that much better than 203? Is CC getting better transfers this offseason because we played UNC Asheville and Brown instead of Navy and UMES?
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take a look at all of the A-10'sOOC schedules
all - except St. Joe's have a non D-1 opponent
A10 Schedules — The Bracketeer
Online!
The schedule is what it is because CC wants it this way. I don’t know how many times I can say it - this is by his design. I have heard him say - and this is a quote - “I will take as many cupcake buy games as the university will pay for.” He believes ( borne of his own experience at Miami) that playing a cupcake OOC schedule and putting up as many “W’s” as possible heading into Conference is the best way to burnish post-season credentials. So make no mistake - this isn’t about inability to attract better schools, it’s this way because he wants it this way.
We saw the risks attendant with that philosophy in full view last year. Not only did we underperform against horrible teams, the A-10 isn’t the ACC and the updraft is really limited. That said, this is the way he’s chosen to go. I disagree with it, but he’s got the right to prove it out amd (hopefully);prove me wrong.
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Alum1 wrote:
The schedule is what it is because CC wants it this way. I don’t know how many times I can say it - this is by his design. I have heard him say - and this is a quote - “I will take as many cupcake buy games as the university will pay for.” He believes ( borne of his own experience at Miami) that playing a cupcake OOC schedule and putting up as many “W’s” as possible heading into Conference is the best way to burnish post-season credentials. So make no mistake - this isn’t about inability to attract better schools, it’s this way because he wants it this way.
We saw the risks attendant with that philosophy in full view last year. Not only did we underperform against horrible teams, the A-10 isn’t the ACC and the updraft is really limited. That said, this is the way he’s chosen to go. I disagree with it, but he’s got the right to prove it out amd (hopefully);prove me wrong.
Alum1, I do think you're 100% correct about this. While GW is not in a position to control the makeup of its entire OOC schedule, CC can choose to formulate a more challenging schedule than the past two he's crafted. I believe he is consciously opting not to.
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Having spoken to CC about this very topic extensively over the past two seasons, the truth is much more complicated. My understanding of all of the relevant factors that impact scheduling are as follows:
First of all the A-10 has set forth some scheduling parameters that members must adhere to. This has to do with "buy" games. There are limitations on the types of teams A-10 members can schedule for "buy" games both in terms of who you can bring in and who you can go on the road to play.
Second, there is the difference that the A-10 has nearly become a one-bid league. Meaning the other games aren't nearly as important as the Conference Schedule and therefore, less value is placed on them.
Third, there is the idea that our roster has been in flux the past few years and CC has had teams that are relatively inexperienced playing together the past 2 seasons. I believe that CC feels it is important to jell early without too much scheduling pressure.
Fourth, what happened last year had as much to do with being a young team with a number of key injuries as it did with the OOC schedule.
Fifth, there is the fact that CC does want to schedule wins so that we can establish some program momentum by having a winning season which (checking my notes) hasn't happened in awhile.
Sixth, there is the issue of if GW determined to play a game or two that was more difficult, who would be willing to play GW - given our recent record, many teams see no value to playing us on a risk/reward basis and therefore, the options are not plentiful and that's before you get to finding agreeable dates. To fly out to the West Coast to play single game right before exam period may not be a good thing for our student-athletes. It all depends on what your options are.
Seventh, I think GW (and maybe not CC as much) places a priority on getting as many home games as possible. Easier to schedule LM teams in that endeavor.
So yes part of all of this is a choice but that choice is made within an environment that poses a number of constraints.
I also know that should we improve and maintain some roster continuity that CC is also willing to play tougher OOC games. So hopefully, we will have opportunities in the future to improve the strength of OOC schedule.
Last edited by GWRising (9/13/2024 2:27 pm)
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Thanks Rising. Makes sense to me.
To my way of thinking unless GW is good enough to fight for an At-Large I don’t care much about the OOC schedule. That said having 1 home game versus a high quality opponent would be very welcome.
Since that isn’t going happen GW should schedule AU and Howard every year and try to reestablish some history with DC schools if not a rivalry
And Yes I know it’s not like we’d be doing either school a favor, but a fan I’d rather play them than 1ST Year D1 Tech
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For those of you who were at the open practice today, CC and ML (new AD) reiterated most of the points I laid out above regarding scheduling when asked about it.
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My impression of the coach's comments were that the schedule was partly by design and partly because of things stacked against us (and the conference) that we have no control over. It was my feeling that he was suggesting that the schedule may have been different had the team be more in a "contending" mode rather than a "still building but not there yet" mode. What I really found interesting is the statement that Buchanan is getting rougly 10 percent in NIL money that he could have gotten had he transferred elsewhere but he chose to stay for other reasons. Said our NIL budget was in the middle range of other A-10 schools.
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The A10 has had multiple NCAA bids in 18 of the last 19 years, so I really wish people would stop calling it a “one bid league.”
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Yesterday's scrimmage and lunch gave me a very positive outlook on our team's future. Castro and Hansen as our centers will give us a much better offense and there is a great deal more basketball experience than last year when GW had nine new players. I was especially impressed with the comments from our new Athletic Director; Michael really knows how to communicate with fans and donors and is clearly a very strong advocate for GDub hoops.
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DC Native wrote:
The A10 has had multiple NCAA bids in 18 of the last 19 years, so I really wish people would stop calling it a “one bid league.”
19 years is not a good reference point. The college basketball world has changed greatly in that time. Recent history is more telling and we are trending toward a 1-2 bid league. The last four years we have had 2-2-1-2. That's unfortunate but that's how a lot of people see it. With 15 teams that is essentially a one bid league. There is no other league with more teams and fewer bids.
Note: This will be especially true if Dayton and SLU join the Big East as has been rumored.
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GWRising, I am not saying that you're not making any cogent points. However, the one you keep making that I wish you would stop making is your sixth point. When I see LaSalle playing at Duke last year and playing at UNC this year, along with the numerous examples I previously provided of A10 teams scheduling exactly the type of game you are claiming GW can't schedule (as opposed to choosing not to schedule), I perceive this point to be absolute bullshit. You've since added this "fly to the west coast right before exams" example which is about as straw man as it gets. Forget the west coast. Go play at Xavier, Cincinnati, Ohio State, Indiana, Butler, Purdue, West Virginia, Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State, Boston College, Syracuse, or against any Big East school. Or, schedule a home and home with James Madison, Indiana State, Yale, Colgate, Oakland, Akron, Charleston, or some other quality midmajor. There is at least one solid program out there who would agree to play GW. Am pretty confident of this.
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Gwmayhem wrote:
GWRising, I am not saying that you're not making any cogent points. However, the one you keep making that I wish you would stop making is your sixth point. When I see LaSalle playing at Duke last year and playing at UNC this year, along with the numerous examples I previously provided of A10 teams scheduling exactly the type of game you are claiming GW can't schedule (as opposed to choosing not to schedule), I perceive this point to be absolute bullshit. You've since added this "fly to the west coast right before exams" example which is about as straw man as it gets. Forget the west coast. Go play at Xavier, Cincinnati, Ohio State, Indiana, Butler, Purdue, West Virginia, Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State, Boston College, Syracuse, or against any Big East school. Or, schedule a home and home with James Madison, Indiana State, Yale, Colgate, Oakland, Akron, Charleston, or some other quality midmajor. There is at least one solid program out there who would agree to play GW. Am pretty confident of this.
Gwmayhem - you can claim this to be bullshit all you want. Were you at the open practice reception Saturday? Our own new AD made this very point. He said when he was at NC State they weren't looking for games with App State. This was made in the context of something CC said immediately prior about the risk/reward of playing GW right now. The larger point was that we have to win first to schedule better games. Because a few other teams were able to schedule a game that fits your criteria does not mean the opportunities for GW are plentiful or line up with other committed games, exams, travel etc. Also, don't discount the Fran Dunphy effect with La Salle. Sometimes coach relationships cut through the fog. Yes, there could be a team out there but if you know one, call CC. I am sure he will listen.
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GWRising wrote:
Also, don't discount the Fran Dunphy effect with La Salle. Sometimes coach relationships cut through the fog.
I think this is the answer for why La Salle is getting Duke/UNC in back-to-back years. Ashley Howard or Dr. John aren't getting those games.
There are only so many favors CC can call in because he's only worked at two stops before GW and those staffs stayed together for many seasons. Realistically, the best option would be a game against Temple (coached by former co-AC Adam Fisher). This season they are playing 4 times against A-10 teams. Temple's schedule is always funky because it has to fit in Big 5 games, but hopefully we can get something on the books with them in the coming years. Random tangent: I still can't believe Mojo's 2017 team beat them at the last BB&T.