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Let's get the obvious out of the way. If you don't want to read or hear another thing about our former coach ever again, stop reading right now. Nobody is forcing you to read this.
Earlier this week, Crystal Mangum, the young woman who had accused several Duke lacrosse players of raping her, publicly acknowledged that she made the story up and lied about it during her testimony. This woman is presently serving time for a 2013 second-degree murder conviction for stabbing her boyfriend. The news prompted the following tweet from ML:
The truth always comes out! Loved seeing this article today. I pray every night that the administration in Foggy Bottom will someday tell the truth. May God bless you Ms. Mangum.
I am posting this for several reasons:
1) This is newsworthy. It's not like ML tweets about this all the time. His tweet had context behind it, and I felt that this might be of interest to some here who may not have seen it.
2) This man's coaching career came to an end. I don't take this lightly, and quite frankly, if any part of the decision to terminate ML's contract was erroneous or wrongful, then neither should any of us.
3) We now have a school president, athletic director, and complete men's basketball coaching staff who were all not employed by GW during the Nero-Lonergan fiasco. It seems to me that if ML's take is accurate and there is a "truth to come out", this should be the time. The school's leaders can acknowledge that they obviously had no role in any of this but here's what the school's findings indicated. Here's what the independent report established.
Please spare me any conspiracy theories you'd like to ascribe. This is not at all about replacing CC with ML or anything remotely resembling this. What it is about is clearing a man's good name if the facts warrant this. And, it's about establishing closure which quite honestly, I believe only presently exists among those of us who are so tired of the story. That's just not a good enough reason not to try to correct a grave injustice should this be the case.
We are a little over a year away from the 10 year anniversary of the NIT Championship. This would pave the way to properly celebrate this team, with ML very much included with this acknowledgement.
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This is very well said.
For those that think it's irrelevant and ancient history, skip over it.
However, one might want to look at the famous quote about the dangers of ignoring history.
If anyone wants to know why a once-proud program is still taking baby steps now, it all leads back to this.
Plus, there's the personal decency, fairness and seemingly unfairly ruined life
aspect, as well as numerous millions spent in dealing with the aftermath that could
have gone into the program.
Don't like the topic? See Mayhem's opening paragraph.
Let's handle this issue (or ignore if you want--but it's a lot more relevant than other teams and
coaches) somewhat like adults who can handle honest discussion.
In the end, we're all on the same side, anyway.
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My guess is that there is no one left at GW that can speak to the facts of the case, and that the investigative report done at the time was inconclusive. I feel bad for Lonergan, but I don't think the university will ever be in a position to make some sort of formal apology as you are suggesting... I do hope that they can include him in any celebrations of the anniversary of the NIT championship team, although perhaps he wouldn't participate without a statement that he thinks will "clear his name." Sad.
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I saw the tweet/facebook message and didn't think much of it. ML's side has never changed and everything he said initially was verified by the facts that came out, starting with Nero's behavior which quickly led to his firing (or, as he put it, pursuing other opportunities) a year later in 2017. My guess is that ML has moved on and is at the next stage of his life/career. I do notice he posts on Facebook/Tweets whenever a milestone event anniversary comes around (like the NIT win, UVA win Catholic U National Championship, etc). I'm sure he's not surprised (and may even take some satisfaction) that we are continuing to struggle as a program 8 1/2 years later and a real possibility that we could be on our 5th coach in 9 years if our A-10 season is a disaster.
As for Patrick Nero, my sources tell me that he is separated/divorced from his partner he was living with in Florida, not making any income from his "consulting company" and moved back to California where he has family. I wonder if he regrets his actions from years ago. As we all know, BAD KARMA will bite you in the ass!
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I just re-read Kilgore's piece, and the basic tenets of the article are as follows:
1. 13 players left the GW Men's Basketball program over 5 years.
2. Five (un-named) players heard ML make references to the athletics director "masturbating" to practice tapes.
3. A plural, but undefined, number of players said that ML directly referenced the battle between himself and PN.
4. A player made a Title IX inquiry in April 2016, which would have been the second of the kind, alleging verbal abuse.
5. A former member of ML's staff (unnamed) says that more than the normal number of players transferred from GW because of a poor relationship/experience with ML, and that it was more than just basketball reasons.
The Deadspin Article Alleges:
1. PN was often drunk and consistently inappropriate with student-athletes, young alumni, and job candidates.
2. That ML was exonerated in the first Title IX investigation by Provost Lerman (and quite happily so).
3. That PN was illegally paying at least one men's basketball player, and was way too engaged with players' personal lives, up to and including inviting them into his home.
4. That ML was colluded against by Provost Maltzman and Patrick Nero, and, potentially, other GW staffers.
5. That ML, in fact, was in no way homophobic (an allegation introduced by WaPo and then emphasized by CBS Sports), evidenced by his recruiting of and relationship with Derrick Gordon, is participation in an LGBTQ equity summit, and his support of an organization following the Florida Nightclub shooting.
6. There was some sort of settlement, and with it some sort of non-disparagement clause based on the statement ML read to McKenna at the end of the article.
ML isn't crazy about posting about GW, but I wouldn't call him shy about it, and he's been extremely consistent that he was railroaded and lied about in this process. GW has kept its powder dry. Whether it's because GW knows it's sitting on a cover-up of the facts, or they just don't want to relitigate the story any more than we choose to on this site, or because they are respecting a mutually-binding NDA is unknown to me. Whether the original settlement was, in effective, a confession, or if it was a way of avoiding a discovery process that would likely unearth much of what was in the Deadspin article is unknown to me.
But, for the most part, I don't believe that the facts in the two articles contradict each other that much so much as they represent two sides of a story of two men who, in part because of their hatred of one another, behaved on the spectrum of very weird to inexcusable. Neither organization has retracted their stories.
After nearly a decade of thinking about this, I've come to the conclusion that two things can be true: that 1) a meaningful number of players ML recruited hated playing for him, and that ML aired too much dirty laundry to his team, and 2) that PN's behavior was at minimum unacceptable and embarrassing and at worst criminal and predatory. It can also be true that players with elite work ethics and a desire to get better that trumped any of the weird stuff that came along with playing for him, and that the GW Athletics department was perhaps it strongest under PN.
It's a shame that these two men ruined themselves and to some extent each other (though I'm not sure PN needed help losing his job). It's a shame that ML hasn't landed somewhere, because his basketball knowledge is unquestionably elite. It's a shame that GW hasn't put the pieces back together.
If I'm GW and if I'm a member of this new generation of leadership, they owe it to ML if he lost his career over fabrications. But I think the answer is more unsatisfying than that. I think that GW made an overly cautious decision and was rather pearl-clutchy about the behavior of a hard-nosed winning-focused basketball coach who said things that aren't really acceptable in polite society (and especially on college campuses these days). GW probably didn't lie, but they probably made a bad choice. And that isn't all that satisfying for any of the parties involved here.
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Gwmayhem wrote:
Let's get the obvious out of the way. If you don't want to read or hear another thing about our former coach ever again, stop reading right now. Nobody is forcing you to read this.
Earlier this week, Crystal Mangum, the young woman who had accused several Duke lacrosse players of raping her, publicly acknowledged that she made the story up and lied about it during her testimony. This woman is presently serving time for a 2013 second-degree murder conviction for stabbing her boyfriend. The news prompted the following tweet from ML:
The truth always comes out! Loved seeing this article today. I pray every night that the administration in Foggy Bottom will someday tell the truth. May God bless you Ms. Mangum.
I am posting this for several reasons:
1) This is newsworthy. It's not like ML tweets about this all the time. His tweet had context behind it, and I felt that this might be of interest to some here who may not have seen it.
2) This man's coaching career came to an end. I don't take this lightly, and quite frankly, if any part of the decision to terminate ML's contract was erroneous or wrongful, then neither should any of us.
3) We now have a school president, athletic director, and complete men's basketball coaching staff who were all not employed by GW during the Nero-Lonergan fiasco. It seems to me that if ML's take is accurate and there is a "truth to come out", this should be the time. The school's leaders can acknowledge that they obviously had no role in any of this but here's what the school's findings indicated. Here's what the independent report established.
Please spare me any conspiracy theories you'd like to ascribe. This is not at all about replacing CC with ML or anything remotely resembling this. What it is about is clearing a man's good name if the facts warrant this. And, it's about establishing closure which quite honestly, I believe only presently exists among those of us who are so tired of the story. That's just not a good enough reason not to try to correct a grave injustice should this be the case.
We are a little over a year away from the 10 year anniversary of the NIT Championship. This would pave the way to properly celebrate this team, with ML very much included with this acknowledgement.
LOL, Deadspin is total trash and this played out story from 8 years ago is too
almost a decade later the man hasn't worked in the sport for a very good reason
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I claim no special insight or knowledge other than by personal observation of the people involved at the time. I've always seen ML as sort of a poor man's Bob Knight, i.e., a brilliant, hard-nosed basketball coach who commanded extreme loyalty and devotion from some players (mostly the really good ones), but who was loathed and disdained by those players unable to conform to his high standards and rigid discipline. Like Knight, he had a mercurial temper, screamed a lot, was very profane and politically incorrect, and had little use for management/authority telling him anything about how to run his program. That his nominal boss, PN, was a weaselly, oily, drunken manipulator with a penchant for inappropriate sexual advances towards students was a recipe for disaster. A basically spineless Administrative University leadership cohort completed the very sad portrait. Everyone played out their assigned roles in the tragedy, and all of them undoubtedly deserve some criticism. Despite his generous haul of hush money from the University, I still think 10 years in the wilderness (so to speak) during your prime productive years is a pretty stiff price to pay for ML, and that he probably deserves some sort of exoneration/rehabilitation having paid his dues for his seemingly less than egregious crimes and misdemeanors.
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I'd like to thank Creeksandzeeks for arguably the most thoughtful, responsible post on this subject that I've ever read here. It was certainly a far more productive response than what GW Alum Abroad and The Dude had to say on the matter.
I've been consistent in suggesting that ML did not act like a perfect saint based on the reports we've seen. I've also maintained that sometimes in life, people can be pushed to the point where their actions are less than ideal. If any one of us were in ML's shoes and our athletic director was either having an illicit affair or even making sexual overtures towards one of our players, and this was reported to the school but not much was being done about it, it's not inconceivable that we too may have vented to the team, even in a sarcastic and inappropriate manner. Doesn't make this right but it does make things easier to comprehend.
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Thanks, Mayhem.
That the AD's actions were quite clearly beyond the pale is not, unto itself, an exoneration. It is helpful context and it makes ML more sympathetic. One situation feels pretty black and white based on the reporting. The other seems to live in a grey area, and your perspective is going to depend 1) on your relationships with the people involved, 2) on what you think it takes to win at this level, and 3) what you believe the student-athlete experience should be at GW regardless of your talent level.
I'm not going to get mad at anyone for feeling one way or the other. I'm just skeptical of folks who say it's all "lies."
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LMFAO ..."award-winning journalism". Yes, once upon a time.
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The Dude wrote:
Gwmayhem wrote:
Let's get the obvious out of the way. If you don't want to read or hear another thing about our former coach ever again, stop reading right now. Nobody is forcing you to read this.
Earlier this week, Crystal Mangum, the young woman who had accused several Duke lacrosse players of raping her, publicly acknowledged that she made the story up and lied about it during her testimony. This woman is presently serving time for a 2013 second-degree murder conviction for stabbing her boyfriend. The news prompted the following tweet from ML:
The truth always comes out! Loved seeing this article today. I pray every night that the administration in Foggy Bottom will someday tell the truth. May God bless you Ms. Mangum.
I am posting this for several reasons:
1) This is newsworthy. It's not like ML tweets about this all the time. His tweet had context behind it, and I felt that this might be of interest to some here who may not have seen it.
2) This man's coaching career came to an end. I don't take this lightly, and quite frankly, if any part of the decision to terminate ML's contract was erroneous or wrongful, then neither should any of us.
3) We now have a school president, athletic director, and complete men's basketball coaching staff who were all not employed by GW during the Nero-Lonergan fiasco. It seems to me that if ML's take is accurate and there is a "truth to come out", this should be the time. The school's leaders can acknowledge that they obviously had no role in any of this but here's what the school's findings indicated. Here's what the independent report established.
Please spare me any conspiracy theories you'd like to ascribe. This is not at all about replacing CC with ML or anything remotely resembling this. What it is about is clearing a man's good name if the facts warrant this. And, it's about establishing closure which quite honestly, I believe only presently exists among those of us who are so tired of the story. That's just not a good enough reason not to try to correct a grave injustice should this be the case.
We are a little over a year away from the 10 year anniversary of the NIT Championship. This would pave the way to properly celebrate this team, with ML very much included with this acknowledgement.LOL, Deadspin is total trash and this played out story from 8 years ago is too
almost a decade later the man hasn't worked in the sport for a very good reason
Yes, the very good reason is that the lies continue to be put forward. Has our former AD become an AD again?
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GW0509,
I would like to report a violation - dude continues to use several names (including GW Alum Abroad) so it doesn't look like one person has over 5000 posts in the short time this board has existed. We need to hire someone to investigate this conduct - Matt Gaetz is a lawyer and available!
It's a sad commentary on our program 8 1/2 years later that this topic gets more attention than our team about to enter conference play.
From all appearances, ML has taken his millions and continues to live his life in comfort. Nero is now living at his sister's place in Northern Cal trying to decide what opportunities he wants to take 7 years after being fired. My question is, what the hell did he do with the $1.2 million his attorney was able to extort from GW for going away quietly in 2017?
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Rising, what the dude imposter forgets to tell everyone is that there are only about 4 operational newspapers left in the country that haven't folded for lack of circulation. If the GW Hatchet sticks around for a few more years they can "bag" a few Pulitzers.
Merry Christmas alum abroad!
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Joel Joseph wrote:
Rising, what the dude imposter forgets to tell everyone is that there are only about 4 operational newspapers left in the country that haven't folded for lack of circulation. If the GW Hatchet sticks around for a few more years they can "bag" a few Pulitzers.
Merry Christmas alum abroad!
8 years out of the sport, you can hide behind fake "names" but Mike Lonergan will never work in the industry again even though you claimed he would be instantly hired ....its been almost a decade bub, when you abuse your players which he was, that's the consequence...that and his racist tirades make him totally toxic in the industry
Facts are Facts
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The Dude wrote:
Joel Joseph wrote:
Rising, what the dude imposter forgets to tell everyone is that there are only about 4 operational newspapers left in the country that haven't folded for lack of circulation. If the GW Hatchet sticks around for a few more years they can "bag" a few Pulitzers.
Merry Christmas alum abroad!8 years out of the sport, you can hide behind fake "names" but Mike Lonergan will never work in the industry again even though you claimed he would be instantly hired ....its been almost a decade bub, when you abuse your players which he was, that's the consequence...that and his racist tirades make him totally toxic in the industry
Facts are Facts
And you’re still at Smith Center largely doing the same thing all these years later. Going nowhere fast.
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Chris Caputo
11 wins in 13 games
Mike Lonergan 0 in 8 1/2 years
Enough said on this topic
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Dude your lack of knowledge re the Lonergan situation is laughable. If ML wanted to coach again he would. CC is the coach and I fully support him and feel he will get the job done. Hopefully, GW has the proper leadership in place so we don’t experience anything like this again.
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2twooed wrote:
If ML wanted to coach again he would.
If that's the case (and I have no reason to doubt your knowledge of his thinking), then what is the point of continually tweeting about the situation? Patsos was fired by Siena for the same things Mike was alleged to do but he doesn't tweet about Siena. Gregg Marshall was fired for worse allegations, and he doesn't tweet about Wichita State. It's been 8 years, and outside of the Deadspin article the college basketball world doesn't seem too sympathetic to Mike's case.
I'm not saying Mike can't feel wronged and continue to vent to his family and friends, but I just can't help but think there's a better PR strategy if the goal was to get back into coaching.