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2/17/2020 5:12 pm  #81


Re: GW vs Mason Game Thread

russianthistle wrote:

GWRising-- BC had joked about me making the point that they should play the two bigs together.. not targetng you at all.... I had must have missed your previous post and have no problem with your position.... the point was that for short stretches, Paar's stroke from 3 could pay off especially if his man gives him the shot --he showed off his shot this summer.
 

I know he can shoot it a little but he has not attempted a three all season. Not sure JC wants him trying that out in a close game like Saturday.

 

2/17/2020 5:19 pm  #82


Re: GW vs Mason Game Thread

Gwmayhem wrote:

Ok, I'm not going to waste any more time debating someone who is literally making stuff up to try to win a debate.  Not once did I ever suggest that AT and Chase ought to be playing together regularly.  In fact, I have specifically said that it should happen based on certain matchups.  I also said that it should happen when we are getting killed on the boards which is what prompted my saying this in the first place.

But now that they have played together, after suggesting in your opinion that they never would, you would like to turn this around and state that you were correct all along because they are not going to play together regularly?  As if I or anyone else ever said they would or should?  This is a pretty big reach, even for you, LOL.

 

Yes you did not use the word regularly but you did say when we are getting killed on the boards. In case you haven't noticed, GW is at a rebounding deficit MOST games with some deficits in or near double figures. So it would be logical to assume you meant regularly as in a lot of the time since this is an apparent continuing weakness for this team.

 

2/17/2020 8:44 pm  #83


Re: GW vs Mason Game Thread

Don’t know that there is anything to suggest Toro is injured.  From what I am hearing, and this is supported by the pregame assistant coaches statements on numerous occasions, Toros lack of playing time has been a coaches decision...one that I personally do not agree with.

 

2/18/2020 1:19 am  #84


Re: GW vs Mason Game Thread

And even if you always 100 percent agree with the coach's puzzling decision(s), it's not necessary or anywhere accurate to disparage the (quite proven) ability of a player who has given his all for GW, healthy and not. Including playing seven or so games last year while needing an operation, just to help the team out, while maintaining eligibility to help GW in future years.
  Seems like the two recent games we won in between a truly disturbing blowout club sandwich, were the ones where Arnaldo played some significant minutes. While he didn't wow statistically at Mason, it was noted that his defense made a difference. And he simply won the Davidson game for us at the end, inexplicably coming in cold.
   

 

2/18/2020 10:04 am  #85


Re: GW vs Mason Game Thread

It's probably worth noting a few things here.  First, there are many things about this program that all of us do not know.  I don't believe that anyone has ever said that they possess keener insights regarding this program than the coaching staff does.  If AT is injured, they would know the extent of the injury, the progress of his recovery, and presumably what can be expected from him.  

Also, let's not conflate going against JC regarding their usage of AT with thinking that JC is a terrible coach or that he's not doing a good job.  Citing an argument like team improvement is essentially a non-argument.  I am a fan of JC and really appreciate the job that he and his staff are doing.  Watching the team play in conference games has been like night and day compared to earlier in the season.  The Athletic just gave GW some love yesterday (thank you Patrick Stevens).  And yet, you can in fact appreciate all of the positives surrounding this program, and still think that the coaching staff was incorrect on their handling of AT.  One needn't either agree with everything that is said and done or simply react by saying that I trust the coaching staff in order to be considered a supporter of this program.
 

And so here, on a message board, it is logical to draw conclusions and make assumptions based on what we do know as well as what we think might be the case.  It is a waste of time for anyone to suggest that any poster is not qualified to offer an opinion because they don't know all of the facts.  If this were true, then shut down the message board by all means since it's a rare discussion where everyone knows all of the facts.  As has been mentioned, the school's sports information department is less than forthcoming when it comes to providing behind-the-scenes information and without any beat reporters asking for this information, we are often left to guess.  (Using AT as an example, would it be hard to make a statement that said "AT is about 75% recovered but still has a nagging ________.  Coach is hoping to be able to play him 10-20 minutes today based on how the game goes and how he is feeling." )  Am pretty certain that no HIPPA laws would have been violated.

 

 

2/18/2020 10:18 am  #86


Re: GW vs Mason Game Thread

jf wrote:

And even if you always 100 percent agree with the coach's puzzling decision(s), it's not necessary or anywhere accurate to disparage the (quite proven) ability of a player who has given his all for GW, healthy and not. Including playing seven or so games last year while needing an operation, just to help the team out, while maintaining eligibility to help GW in future years.
  Seems like the two recent games we won in between a truly disturbing blowout club sandwich, were the ones where Arnaldo played some significant minutes. While he didn't wow statistically at Mason, it was noted that his defense made a difference. And he simply won the Davidson game for us at the end, inexplicably coming in cold.
   

I assume that is directed at me. Not once have I questioned Toro's commitment, dedication or effort. I have questioned whether he can help us on the court to the degree that others have suggested here and pointed out why I believe he can't. Those are two different things entirely. This can be flipped around by saying if you promote Toro than you are by definition criticizing Paar. We can both be ridiculous.

In case you weren't aware, there are 13 scholarships. By definition, you can play only 5. Someone will have to sit. It is the coach's decision to play who he thinks will help this team win now and in the future. Neither of us are in any position to substitute our judgment for his. That's why we shouldn't ascribe any motives here to anyone. 

 

2/18/2020 10:30 am  #87


Re: GW vs Mason Game Thread

Gwmayhem wrote:

It's probably worth noting a few things here.  First, there are many things about this program that all of us do not know.  I don't believe that anyone has ever said that they possess keener insights regarding this program than the coaching staff does.  If AT is injured, they would know the extent of the injury, the progress of his recovery, and presumably what can be expected from him.  

Also, let's not conflate going against JC regarding their usage of AT with thinking that JC is a terrible coach or that he's not doing a good job.  Citing an argument like team improvement is essentially a non-argument.  I am a fan of JC and really appreciate the job that he and his staff are doing.  Watching the team play in conference games has been like night and day compared to earlier in the season.  The Athletic just gave GW some love yesterday (thank you Patrick Stevens).  And yet, you can in fact appreciate all of the positives surrounding this program, and still think that the coaching staff was incorrect on their handling of AT.  One needn't either agree with everything that is said and done or simply react by saying that I trust the coaching staff in order to be considered a supporter of this program.
 

And so here, on a message board, it is logical to draw conclusions and make assumptions based on what we do know as well as what we think might be the case.  It is a waste of time for anyone to suggest that any poster is not qualified to offer an opinion because they don't know all of the facts.  If this were true, then shut down the message board by all means since it's a rare discussion where everyone knows all of the facts.  As has been mentioned, the school's sports information department is less than forthcoming when it comes to providing behind-the-scenes information and without any beat reporters asking for this information, we are often left to guess.  (Using AT as an example, would it be hard to make a statement that said "AT is about 75% recovered but still has a nagging ________.  Coach is hoping to be able to play him 10-20 minutes today based on how the game goes and how he is feeling." )  Am pretty certain that no HIPPA laws would have been violated.

 

The reason information is not released is three-fold. First, competitive advantage. Second, gambling. Third, uncertainty.

Competitive advantage - why let your opponent know that Toro is 75%?
Gambling - the Conference and the school often warn about letting injury information to get out there either privately or semi-publicly that would be used to someone's benefit in the gambling context.
Uncertainty - sometimes it's a game time decision as in we will see how you feel in warm-ups..

As to criticism of the JC, you are correct that is what happens on message boards. But there is a difference between saying JC isn't playing Toro because he undervalues his talent and insinuating there must be some dislike or other effort to push Toro out solely because he is not one of JC's guys. There is no evidence for the latter and I am pushing back against that part not against the fact that this is a forum to discuss all things GW basketball including coaching. It just may be that you and others have to agree to disagree with JC on his use of Toro and we will see long term who is correct. 
 

Last edited by GWRising (2/18/2020 1:41 pm)

 

2/18/2020 2:36 pm  #88


Re: GW vs Mason Game Thread

GWRising, I fully believe that JC and staff have no personal animosity against AT.  We'd have to go back a few weeks at this point but my post was intended to have an incredulous tone to it, as if to say that I can't imagine why AT is being used in this manner unless it's something personal.  This is not to suggest that I ever thought something personal was at work here.  It was more about me emphatically pointing out how inexplicable this situation (AT's usage) appeared to be (to me as well as to several others who have weighed in.).

 

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