Posted by creeksandzeeks  9/26/2024 3:36 pm | #21 |
I believe that Rising is reflecting the mindset of Coach Caputo and his staff, and that that reflects the prevailing wisdom of the Conference and college basketball in general, but it's worth noting that GW "did their part" by winning 80% of its non-con games and still pooped the bed when it was time for conference play. And, Alum1 reflected a lot of cynics in calling out our pride and joy in our NET ranking and the one time we were next four out according to DeCourcy only to have reality set in with gusto.
Again, I'm not calling for GW to schedule a home-and-home with Kansas (though I'd take it). It's the fact that they're playing a ton of #275-365 teams instead of #200-#274 teams. I'm not calling for a "good" or "great" schedule, I'm disappointed that they chose "terrible" instead of "bad."
I'll stop my participation in this argument there. What's done is done, and we know all we're going to. It might be the right call for the program, but it's a bad call for fans.
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Posted by GWRising 9/26/2024 4:38 pm | #22 |
Gwmayhem wrote:
Rising, do you seriously believe that swapping out three games against teams ranked 250 or worse in exchange for three games against teams ranked between 60-150 would mean nothing to the players? That the players would be just as excited, to play this year's schedule as they would that hypothetical one?
You're entitled to your opinion but I can practically assure you that players with any competitive juices whatsoever would rather be tested against better but winnable competition than teams who would consider it moral victories to stay within 10 points of GW.
What the players may want (although I don't know how you know what the players want since I talk to them and haven't heard anyone say "oh I wish we played a tougher schedule" and "damn if we only played 3 more games against teams ranked 60-150 it would be so much better") is not always what is best for the development of the program let alone NET rankings - that's why we have coaches. I am quite certain if you asked any players from any program they would tell you they want to practice less too and maybe skip some of the offseason workouts. Playing games against teams 60-150 when you haven't established a winning program and have many new parts is not getting you much except maybe 3 more losses and diminished confidence. Even if you win, that alone is not getting you into the postseason without a strong conference performance. Again, look at the 4 or 5 teams ahead of us in conference last year and tell me what those games did for them.
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Posted by DC Native 9/27/2024 8:48 am | #23 |
According to KenPom, GW's OOC SOS was 361 out of 362 last year. Reading through all these comments, I can only think of the following reasons for this: 1) Most if not all other D1 programs have a different scheduling philosophy than GW; 2) Every other D1 program in the country (except Minnesota) had more talent than GW last year and therefore warranted a stronger OOC schedule; 3) Every other D1 program in the country (except Minnesota) was in a better position than GW to get other schools to play them; or 4) Most if not all D1 programs have the same scheduling philosophy as GW, but GW is better at it than anyone else (except Minnesota). Of these, the only one that makes sense to me is the first one...
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Posted by GW0509 9/27/2024 9:38 am | #24 |
I think some of that is just random chance. Yes, the teams we scheduled in the OOC last year were bad, but I woudn't say our scheduling philosophy is all that different from the 5 other A10 schools that had a sub-300 OOC SOS.
Last edited by GW0509 (9/27/2024 9:38 am)
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Posted by DC Native 9/27/2024 9:52 am | #25 |
I think some of that is just random chance. Yes, the teams we scheduled in the OOC last year were bad, but I woudn't say our scheduling philosophy is all that different from the 5 other A10 schools that had a sub-300 OOC SOS.
That's possible - that some of the teams that were scheduled turned out to be worse than the schedulers were expecting. But surprisingly, GWRising, who seems to be close to those making these decisions, doesn't really make that argument in his many posts here. Caputo doesn't mention that in his posted comments about the schedule either...
Also, the next worse OOC SOS in the A10 was La Salle. While their ranking was 353, not much better than GW's 361, their actual OOC SOS score was -7.42, which seems to be significantly better than GW's -10.51, although I admit that I do not understand the math behind these scores. The third worse in the A10 was St. Joe's at -6.28 (338th).
Last edited by DC Native (9/27/2024 9:58 am)
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Posted by GWRising 9/27/2024 10:00 am | #26 |
One thing lost in all of this scheduling discussion is regardless of your scheduling philosophy, the schedule does not always work out as you planned sometimes a year or more in advance. With the transfer portal, you may think you are scheduling one level of team and end up with another. The schedule while released in the Fall was not made the day before. Most of it was made months and years before.
Case in point, GW did not intend to have the 361st rated OOC schedule last year. But a few of the teams on the schedule underperformed probably compared to where GW thought they would be at the time they were scheduled. And part of that was GW own doing by beating them but then having a difficult Conference schedule. So the GW loss was not a good one. Unless you have a crystal ball in the age of transfers, it is hard to know exactly what you are getting both ways. Unfortunately, for GW, the schedule probably was weaker than intended last season.
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Posted by GWRising 9/27/2024 10:05 am | #27 |
I think some of that is just random chance. Yes, the teams we scheduled in the OOC last year were bad, but I woudn't say our scheduling philosophy is all that different from the 5 other A10 schools that had a sub-300 OOC SOS.
That's possible - that some of the teams that were scheduled turned out to be worse than the schedulers were expecting. But surprisingly, GWRising, who seems to be close to those making these decisions, doesn't really make that argument in his many posts here. Caputo doesn't mention that in his posted comments about the schedule either...
Also, the next worse OOC SOS in the A10 was La Salle. While their ranking was 353, not much better than GW's 361, their actual OOC SOS score was -7.42, which seems to be significantly better than GW's -10.51, although I admit that I do not understand the math behind these scores. The third worse in the A10 was St. Joe's at -6.28 (338th).
I didn't make that argument because I am not sure it is relevant. You don't schedule based on what other teams in your conference are doing. You schedule based off of what is best for your team at that time. I don't think GW was trying to hide in the forest as another tree. I think CC thought this was where he wanted to be at that time given where his program is/was.
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Posted by Gwmayhem 9/27/2024 11:33 am | #28 |
I'll keep the voluminous number of sarcastic thoughts to myself and simply say this...
There is nobody, and by nobody I mean not a single person on the planet, who looked at GW's 2023-24 OOC schedule before the start of last season and thought:
That's a pretty good OOC schedule
OR
This should have been a much better OOC schedule than it turned out to be since several teams really ended up underperforming.
It was a heinous OOC schedule the moment it was announced. And let's stop making excuses. This is the path that CC is choosing to take. Like he said, the goal was to win at least 80% of the OOC games "and we did our job." There's really nothing more to this than that.
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Posted by GWRising 9/27/2024 2:09 pm | #29 |
Gwmayhem -
No one ever said it was a good OOC schedule only that it shouldn't have been the 361st schedule. It's easy in hindsight now. Don't recall anyone claiming it was the worst schedule in the country either. You keep wanting to criticize the schedule but what you are blinded to is we didn't have a team ready to face a tougher schedule at the time the 2023-24 schedule was largely made. In fact, CC didn't know what he had coming back other than Bishop by Spring.
Bottom line schedule isn't changing for last year or this year so you can continue to whine all you'd like about it. Yes, this is path that CC is choosing to take for now as he indicated which in his view is in the best interests of the program. When your name goes on that door you will be entitled to change it.
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Posted by Gwmayhem 9/27/2024 4:15 pm | #30 |
It's easy in hindsight now? Did you really write this? Like nobody could know ahead of time just how bad last year's OOC schedule was? Here are actual reactions to when last year's OOC schedule came out:
DMVPiranha: I know we should be playing a weaker schedule this year given the number of new players on the team but...yeah this is really bad even taking that into consideration.
Myself: Karl Hobbs is uncontrollably giggling at this schedule.
Alum '04: Absolutely pitiful.
GW0509: Call this schedule Baked & Wired because those are some cupcakes.
Joel Joseph: This schedule is an embarrassment.
DMVPiranha: There aren't a lot of interesting names on this slate, even at the mid-major level. I can't imagine students want to come out to watch us play against most teams on this slate.
Skittles: This OOC is disgusting. Hoping this is a one time thing and we can get over 10 schools I've heard of or knew were D1 next year.
Mike K: Terrible OOC.
Rising, you should give up your defense of this right now. Hindsight? My God, you just don't count on anyone fact-checking you so you make whatever statement you need to make to fit your narrative, don't you?
If you're going to turn this into a literal debate, as if to say that nobody called it the country's worst schedule or the 361st best schedule, save some time. That's not the point and you know it. The point is that many of us knew well before the first game that last year's OOC schedule was dismal, and we know the same thing about this year's schedule. Hindsight is easy? You can't look any more foolish for writing that in this instance.
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Posted by GWRising 9/27/2024 5:15 pm | #31 |
Gwmayhem is becoming an apt name. You are making mayhem of the English language. At about no less than 4 times in this thread and others, I said the OOC schedule was not good. There, we agree. But despite that, you continue to argue that point as if I said it was good or strong schedule. Wow! What I said was the schedule underperformed. That does not mean had it performed I thought it would be a good one. Maybe had it performed and we had been a little better in conference, the schedule could have been in the 250-275 range. Still not good but not the 2nd worst in country either. The larger point was that schedules do not always turn out how you expect both ways. Not sure why you continue to belabor the point that I somehow think the OOC schedule was good except that maybe you just like to argue facts not in evidence or struggle with basic reading comprehension.
Last edited by GWRising (9/27/2024 5:17 pm)
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Posted by GWRising 9/27/2024 5:27 pm | #32 |
Gwmmayhem's criticism of the weak schedule as it relates to the current state of the program reminds me of the guy everyone went to HS with. He would tell you he could bench a certain weight and then when you put that weight on the bar, he couldn't do it. He would then say well the reason he couldn't do it was you didn't put enough weight on the bar so he wasn't psyched enough. So you would humor him and add 5 or 10 pounds and he would still not be able to lift the weight and then would claim the reason was he was tired from the first attempt at the lower weight.
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Posted by Buff&BlueBandit 9/28/2024 12:02 am | #33 |
Long and short is the schedule is a weak one once again. Quibbling over the reason (A10 request, coach's philosophy, young team, what was available to us) unfortunately won't change it at this point for this season.
But, I did wonder though, what role finance plays a part and how much impact an AD may have on it? Since Nero's departure, the OOC schedule has gotten worse each year it seems. Thoughts?
Posted by Basketball Jones  Online!9/28/2024 8:27 am | #34 |
Long and short is the schedule is a weak one once again. Quibbling over the reason (A10 request, coach's philosophy, young team, what was available to us) unfortunately won't change it at this point for this season.
But, I did wonder though, what role finance plays a part and how much impact an AD may have on it? Since Nero's departure, the OOC schedule has gotten worse each year it seems. Thoughts?
I wonder what the effect is on ticket revenue and associated donations?
Full season
premium seating
partial plans
pre purchased single game sales
walk up daily sales
student attendance
The conference schedule is fantastic - featuring home games against the teams predicted to finish #2 thru #8
but the OOC schedule features teams that i am not willing to pay to see nor pay to ride the subway or drive to see
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Posted by Alum1 9/29/2024 8:00 am | #35 |
Yeah, that’s where Caputo’s philosophy fails the school. Playing “as many cupcakes buy games as the university will pay for” isn’t going to materially fill seats at Smitty. That’s just reality. Fully agree with others that OOC didn’t need to be at the bottom. It’s by choice and we just have to deal with it. But am I going to waste my time hitting Smitty for trash games like Mercyhurst, VMI, UVA-WISE (whatever the fuck that is) or NC A&T? LOL. Nah. Hard pass. Now, the jury’s out as to whether this philosophy can work at an A-10 school like it did at an ACC school. It didn’t last year and if it doesn’t this year then it’s legit to question whether Caputo got it wrong. But he deserves a chance to play it as he sees it.
Long and short is the schedule is a weak one once again. Quibbling over the reason (A10 request, coach's philosophy, young team, what was available to us) unfortunately won't change it at this point for this season.
But, I did wonder though, what role finance plays a part and how much impact an AD may have on it? Since Nero's departure, the OOC schedule has gotten worse each year it seems. Thoughts?I wonder what the effect is on ticket revenue and associated donations?
Full season
premium seating
partial plans
pre purchased single game sales
walk up daily sales
student attendance
The conference schedule is fantastic - featuring home games against the teams predicted to finish #2 thru #8
but the OOC schedule features teams that i am not willing to pay to see nor pay to ride the subway or drive to see
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Posted by Gwmayhem 10/01/2024 10:47 am | #36 |
Here's a good poll question:
If GW offered a "conference game only "season ticket package at 80% of the cost of a full season ticket package, would you buy this or would you still buy the full season ticket package?
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Posted by GWRising 10/01/2024 11:03 am | #37 |
Yeah, that’s where Caputo’s philosophy fails the school. Playing “as many cupcakes buy games as the university will pay for” isn’t going to materially fill seats at Smitty. That’s just reality. Fully agree with others that OOC didn’t need to be at the bottom. It’s by choice and we just have to deal with it. But am I going to waste my time hitting Smitty for trash games like Mercyhurst, VMI, UVA-WISE (whatever the fuck that is) or NC A&T? LOL. Nah. Hard pass. Now, the jury’s out as to whether this philosophy can work at an A-10 school like it did at an ACC school. It didn’t last year and if it doesn’t this year then it’s legit to question whether Caputo got it wrong. But he deserves a chance to play it as he sees it.
Long and short is the schedule is a weak one once again. Quibbling over the reason (A10 request, coach's philosophy, young team, what was available to us) unfortunately won't change it at this point for this season.
But, I did wonder though, what role finance plays a part and how much impact an AD may have on it? Since Nero's departure, the OOC schedule has gotten worse each year it seems. Thoughts?I wonder what the effect is on ticket revenue and associated donations?
Full season
premium seating
partial plans
pre purchased single game sales
walk up daily sales
student attendance
The conference schedule is fantastic - featuring home games against the teams predicted to finish #2 thru #8
but the OOC schedule features teams that i am not willing to pay to see nor pay to ride the subway or drive to see
There is only one thing that will help fill the seats at the Smith Center - consistent winning (doesn't matter against who). Build it (the program) and they will come. No one will support a perennial losing program even against the best schedule in America.
Last edited by GWRising (10/01/2024 11:04 am)
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Posted by jf 10/01/2024 12:27 pm | #38 |
Or even more, against the second to worst schedule in America.
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Posted by Basketball Jones Online! 10/01/2024 3:45 pm | #39 |
Here's a good poll question:
If GW offered a "conference game only "season ticket package at 80% of the cost of a full season ticket package, would you buy this or would you still buy the full season ticket package?
I buy the Georgetown 10 pack for $199 and make a donation to the team to guarantee lower level seats
this year's schedule is
7 single tix to Big East Teams
2 tix to Villanova
1 ticket to OOC - Notre Dame
depending upon my schedule and cost
i may pick up the Creighton game and Coppin State games in December
i also have a 10 pack to GMU
their schedule does not include 10 games that I really want to see
5 tix to 3 OOC gamesNC Central / KenPom 232Coppin / KenPom 342Penn / Me / KenPom 200Penn / John WhitePenn / John White Wife
and 5 A-10 gamesDavidson / KenPom 125GWU#1 Loyola-Chicago#5 St JoesFordham / KenPom 188
I am not all that interested in seeing the bottom half of the A-10
GWU has a fantastic home schedule
i plan on attending 7 of the 9 league home games#4 Dayton#6 Duquesne#2 SLU#8 Richmond#7 GMU#3 VCU#5 Saint Joe'sand 2 OOC gamesHamptonNC A&T
i am a former season ticket holder but gave them up 2 years after the NIT Championship as the team went downhill as well as the OOC schedule
a friend has 2 seats and i am able to buy the games I want via his 2nd seat plus a Christmas -Thank you gift
i pay $9 / game, so on weeknights it is more expensive to drive and park or ride the subway to the game than the actual ticket cost
i believe a 3, 5, 7,9 or 10 pack would be better than a A-10 only ticket package
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Posted by Basketball Jones Online! 10/02/2024 5:45 pm | #40 |
FROM A-10 TALK
