Giving up Colonial and Marvin is an easy decision. It gives the students a victory, shows the administration is listening and allows everyone to move on to what is really important like winning the A-10 Conference Championship!  It is important in these conversation to not lose site of the goal. Win a championship. Everything else is just noise. 
Yes, who gives a dam what the alumni think. It's the students (many who will never graduate) who are  IMPORTANT. 

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language states,  "co.lo.ni.al - Of or relating to the 13 British colonies that became the original  United States of America." 
How about usurper?  - That 's how I feel about people who are not alumni of the University who feel they have a right to decide the moniker issue. Faculty and Administrators who are not alumni should not make this decision. About as much right as I have in deciding to change Maryland's or Georgetown's moniker. 

Gwmayhem wrote:

22andF, yes, I would agree that Washington's actions can be considered crimes against humanity.  What person in their right mind would not think that today.

I'll try to make my point using a comparison to Hitler.  During World War II, much of the world, or at least some it, was essentially appalled by Hitler's conduct.  To give two examples, there were protests by fellow Germans against his actions.  (Students played an integral role.)  And, there was a plot by a fellow German to kill Hitler.  (It backfired.)  By contrast, I'm not sure that many spoke out against GW for owning slaves.  It was immoral to be sure, but it was not abnormal.   Others owned slaves as well which does not make the practice any more right but it does suggest that slave ownership was tolerated.  Whether it should or should not have been tolerated is not the point; we can all agree that in retrospect, it should not have been.  But none of us were there and the fact is that it was a sign of economic standing at the time.  Incidentally, Thomas Jefferson was as I am sure you know, also an owner of slaves.  Looks like we should consider new naming rights deals for The Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial too.  I say that jokingly but in reality, if you really believe that the name of the school ought to be changed, why stop there? 

Gwmayhem, I feel you make excellent points and don't disagree with most of them. Like I said before, i'm not in favor of the school changing names.  But i am advocating that all students who attend GW know the whole truth about our founding father George Washington, including the good, the bad and the morally reprehensible. 

You seem like an exceptional writer, and I imagine you speak well too. I also take it from some of your other posts that you genuinely care for all people, including some of minorities under attack today by the police, the judicial system, and also the far right.  So, as a product of GWU, if you didn't know some of the things about George Washington, maybe there are others who also don't know the complete story.  I feel that if everyone knew a little more about our history, maybe it would help pave the way toward a better future for everyone, including so many black Americans who have been left in the dust. That's why I think this topic is important.  Thank you for discussing it with me.
 

Last edited by 22ndandF (8/21/2020 7:38 pm)

I have a somewhat irrelevant question. How many of the people who want a name change Actually go to a GW sporting event?  I know the students are an overwhelming presence at all sporting events. Am I wrong? So if they (the committee)  don't care enough to back our sports teams, then they have a lot of nerve in feeling they have a Right to change something they have proven to show they don't care about. 

 

TC excellent point that was going to post about before. (I didn’t bc my draft was garbled.) Look I’m ok with a new name as long as it isn’t some bullshit like Wildcats.

But how many of these fine people of all ages, stripes, roles and jobs have been to anything where the name Colonial is prominent? Having slain this dragon maybe they can figure out how to feed the students.

Exactly. This ignorance is disturbing in anyone who goes to GW.
Don't think the rest of the world really cares about whether GW has the Colonials nickname.
Unlike some GW students who apparently have nothing else to do, they know it is not about being a colonialist or colonialism. We threw off the colonial oppressors at the time.
  The Marvin Center name should have been changed long ago. So change it.
But this nonsense is crazy in today's world where there isn't even in-person classes on campus. Not to mention vast social problems, repression at home, the upheaval in our traditions and safeguards. And hey, a pandemic that has killed what will soon be 200,000 Americans and will disable a lot more.
  But hey, worry about the team nickname. 
  Even on campus, people on the lowest rung of the socioeconomic ladder no doubt have been  laid off--and more
will be in the future. In the Department of Athletics, seven sports, including longtime ones like tennis,are being axed.  Yet, let's spend $2 million in a time of huge economic stress and suffering to change the name because it sounds like something else. And turn off donors in the process when they are needed the most. Smart thinking.
   By the way, today's students not only don't have more standing than alumni on this issue, they have
less. Because there is a substantial transfer rate from college these days. Thus, a good number won't have graduated and won't have fully earned the right to decide this issue. In any case, alumni should have equal rights.
  With the committee, the fix sure seems in, as I believe GW Rising noted. Two faculty members are clearly opposed to the Colonials name from the start, so it doesn't pass the smell test that they were picked.
    Sure the name is awkward and sometimes people say :Colonels." But that has nothing to do with this, apparently based on ignorance of the most basic American history. 
  For GW basketball, this won't really help with recruits, including our most recent ones, nor their families.
  There has to be a better justification than it sounds like something that means something else, though quite the opposite.
  Don't know why there seems to be such a diffident attitude about such a major identity related to GW basketball and sports. It can say a lot about the GW fan base, than unlike fans of almost any other school.

 

Last edited by jf (8/25/2020 10:07 pm)

Didn't GW lower admission standards, and begin not requiring the SAT?  Some schools went that route, I wonder if they dropped in rankings too.

Well I guess if the Washington Monument is now in jeopardy and Ben Franklin is a person of "concern", we shouldn't be too concerned with keeping the Colonials name. SMDH

Well done Gwmayhem!

Gwmayhem wrote:

Last week, I jokingly remarked that the Washington Monument and Jefferson Memorial were ripe for new naming rights deals.   I was kidding.

Time to put some cards on the table.  What do you think is more important to black and brown Americans: a) to be treated civilly and with respect.  To not be harshly or unfairly judged due to nothing more than the color of their skin.  Or b) to rename everything associated with any slave owner, regardless of the individual's overall legacy and contributions to this country?  Sure some would absolutely want both a) and b) but if only one could be obtained, wouldn't practically everyone cast their vote with a)?

Here's a sad conclusion that we as a society have either arrived at or are getting closer to every day:  Perhaps this country really isn't capable of a).  Perhaps there will always be bad cops and ugly racists no matter how determined our efforts are to rid ourselves of these repugnant individuals.  And because of this, the answer seems to be to resort to b).  Simply because b), unlike a), CAN be done.   

Gwmayhem, thank you for the question. I'm sitting here thinking that maybe this is some kind of trick, because you can't have "a" without also having "b". What I am trying to say is that it's an insult and disrespectful every time a black person has to cross the Woodrow Wilson Bridge, or go into the Marvin Center, and so on and so on.   So many states have glorified racists by naming streets, buildings, schools and what not.  Putting that little idea aside, I'd say "a" would be better. I feel you're right about it not be possible. And while "b" can be done, it will never happen because most of white America doesn't give a damn about black people. After listening to the conversation in this country over the past year, I am more convinced than ever that most of white America including almost all white Republicans and many white democrats feel it's in their best interest to make sure black people are always at least a rung below them.  I pray I'm wrong, but I mostly hear only three things from white america which is hatred, rationalizaton, or empty words.  

Last edited by 22ndandF (9/02/2020 8:27 pm)