I know this is completely off point-but before this thread ends I need to share with all of you the
amazing and heroic acts that I observed from ICU nurses during my brief time volunteering.
These people are among the finest -hardest working and the most courageous people(mostly women)
I have ever met.It was an honor to be in their presence.

GW69 wrote:

I know this is completely off point-but before this thread ends I need to share with all of you the
amazing and heroic acts that I observed from ICU nurses during my brief time volunteering.
These people are among the finest -hardest working and the most courageous people(mostly women)
I have ever met.It was an honor to be in their presence.

GW69, I don't feel this is off point at all, as GWRising is suggesting we take vaccines from them or other vulnerable people and re-prioritize them to college basketball players and coaches.  I know several ICU nurses and doctors and they are perhaps some of the most heroic people I have ever met. They often have to work the most pressure packed 8 and 12 hours shifts, many of the nurses work for not very much money. There can be no screw-ups or someone could die.  The callous behavior of so many people who won't wear masks and follow CDC guidance and or spread lies and refuse to protect those around them has lead to a spiral of  COVID-19 spread orders of magnitude worse than anywhere else on the globe.  As a result, it has wreaked havoc on health care professionals all throughout the chain of care, including ICU nurses and doctors.  I am glad you brought it up.  I menioned earlier that my friend's mom who just died from COVID-19 was a nurse. She wasn't an ICU nurse, but she was a hero to her family and in many ways, to me.  

Last edited by 22ndandF (2/09/2021 7:51 pm)

22ndandF wrote:

GWRising wrote:

22nd and F - Sorry to hear about your friend's mom. The loss of life from any cause is awful so my prayers and condolences to you and your friend.

I hear your opinion and I know many share it about not playing. But I think there is one misconception leaving alone the conclusory statements as to how we got here which we will have to agree to disagree on.

That misconception is that players are pawns. No player was threatened with loss of a $75,000+ annual scholarship if they chose to opt-out this season (as some have). You say the University gets the money. What money? In 2020-21 GW will lose money as it has suffered from decreased donations and has no ticket revenue. Absent a trip to the NCAAs there is no money. So, approximately 285 schools will have no revenue this year and will in fact lose money.

To me, the better question now given where we are in this pandemic is if you are going to have these players play why has the NCAA not insisted on immediate early vaccination? That seems to be the fair thing. We are asking these players to expose themselves to some level of risk - the least we can do is vaccinate them early. If you assume 25-30 vaccines per team (players, coaches, trainers, administrators) you are talking about under 22,000 vaccines for all of D1 men's and women's basketball. That would hardly affect the national vaccination program. In essence, you treat the players and others as essential personnel. I would argue we should do this for the NBA and NHL as well and as we get to the Spring, MLB. These people are exposing themselves to risk largely for our entertainment. We need to do better in protecting them if we are going to play.

GWRising, do you really think we should take vaccines prioritized for the elderly, health care professionals, teachers, front line workers and other vulnerable folks and give them to college basketball players and coaches?  Even with some of the things you've written here questioning science, and true cause and effect, I can't believe you really believe that siphoning-off vaccines from them to give to college basketball players and coaches is justified.  If I'm wrong, and that's actually something you're comfortable promoting, I can only hope and pray that there are very few people who would agree with you.
 

Please 22andF let's try to not be overly dramatic. Let me put it this way, do you know how many doses of vaccine are wasted in this country due to spoilage (hint: it's more than I am proposing)? Do you know how many vulnerable people refuse to get the vaccine (hint: it's more than I am proposing)? Do you know how many people are jumping the line without regard for the vulnerable (hint: it's more than I am proposing)? How about prisoners at Guantanamo Bay ... should they get it before Matt Moyer and all the vulnerable older people? And with all of that you are worried about 22,000 total vaccines nationally (about 1 percent of Administration's daily plan) some of whom will go to those who are in high risk groups such as older coaches? Maybe it's me but I'm in favor of getting as many shots in arms as quickly as possible. You want to stop this thing and all it's terrible effects - that's the way it will be done. We can stand on ceremony and make differing value judgments about who is essential, who should really get it first after health care workers and first responders (which by the way there is some scientific/medical ethics disagreement over), etc. The clock isn't going to stop ticking for anyone vulnerable  - old or young.

 

Last edited by GWRising (2/09/2021 8:18 pm)

GW Alum Abroad wrote:

Wow? Are we really arguing over if college basketball players are "essential" to American society? Either American society is really fucked up or the Internet has really become the domain of inane.
Wear a mask, stay at home, wash your hands, keep your distance. The only way a virus can spread is through interpersonal contact. This is a GW message board, and I´d expect people at GW to engage in a discourse more intelligent and erudite than what this thread has devolved in to; have we been hijacked by folks from Memphis?

 Try to follow along GWAA. I am not making the case that college basketball players are essential. I am making the case that if you are going to ask them them to play, you have a duty to vaccinate them quickly and that they are no less essential once you ask them to be in harm's way.

GWRising wrote:

22ndandF wrote:

GWRising wrote:

22nd and F - Sorry to hear about your friend's mom. The loss of life from any cause is awful so my prayers and condolences to you and your friend.

I hear your opinion and I know many share it about not playing. But I think there is one misconception leaving alone the conclusory statements as to how we got here which we will have to agree to disagree on.

That misconception is that players are pawns. No player was threatened with loss of a $75,000+ annual scholarship if they chose to opt-out this season (as some have). You say the University gets the money. What money? In 2020-21 GW will lose money as it has suffered from decreased donations and has no ticket revenue. Absent a trip to the NCAAs there is no money. So, approximately 285 schools will have no revenue this year and will in fact lose money.

To me, the better question now given where we are in this pandemic is if you are going to have these players play why has the NCAA not insisted on immediate early vaccination? That seems to be the fair thing. We are asking these players to expose themselves to some level of risk - the least we can do is vaccinate them early. If you assume 25-30 vaccines per team (players, coaches, trainers, administrators) you are talking about under 22,000 vaccines for all of D1 men's and women's basketball. That would hardly affect the national vaccination program. In essence, you treat the players and others as essential personnel. I would argue we should do this for the NBA and NHL as well and as we get to the Spring, MLB. These people are exposing themselves to risk largely for our entertainment. We need to do better in protecting them if we are going to play.

GWRising, do you really think we should take vaccines prioritized for the elderly, health care professionals, teachers, front line workers and other vulnerable folks and give them to college basketball players and coaches?  Even with some of the things you've written here questioning science, and true cause and effect, I can't believe you really believe that siphoning-off vaccines from them to give to college basketball players and coaches is justified.  If I'm wrong, and that's actually something you're comfortable promoting, I can only hope and pray that there are very few people who would agree with you.
 

Please 22andF let's try to not be overly dramatic. Let me put it this way, do you know how many doses of vaccine are wasted in this country due to spoilage (hint: it's more than I am proposing)? Do you know how many vulnerable people refuse to get the vaccine (hint: it's more than I am proposing)? Do you know how many people are jumping the line without regard for the vulnerable (hint: it's more than I am proposing)? How about prisoners at Guantanamo Bay ... should they get it before Matt Moyer and all the vulnerable older people? And with all of that you are worried about 22,000 total vaccines nationally (about 1 percent of Administration's daily plan) some of whom will go to those who are in high risk groups such as older coaches? Maybe it's me but I'm in favor of getting as many shots in arms as quickly as possible. You want to stop this thing and all it's terrible effects - that's the way it will be done. We can stand on ceremony and make differing value judgments about who is essential, who should really get it first after health care workers and first responders (which by the way there is some scientific/medical ethics disagreement over), etc. The clock isn't going to stop ticking for anyone vulnerable  - old or young.

 

GWRising, I was just responding to what you wrote.  I understand you want to change your tune now as you so often seem to do. Be that as it may, I would say, take any extra vaccines and give them to the most vulnerable people first, that would include people who work at grocery stores, transit workers, restaurant workers and so on.  I don't think college basketball players fall into that category.

22ndandF wrote:

GWRising wrote:

22ndandF wrote:

GWRising, do you really think we should take vaccines prioritized for the elderly, health care professionals, teachers, front line workers and other vulnerable folks and give them to college basketball players and coaches?  Even with some of the things you've written here questioning science, and true cause and effect, I can't believe you really believe that siphoning-off vaccines from them to give to college basketball players and coaches is justified.  If I'm wrong, and that's actually something you're comfortable promoting, I can only hope and pray that there are very few people who would agree with you.
 

Please 22andF let's try to not be overly dramatic. Let me put it this way, do you know how many doses of vaccine are wasted in this country due to spoilage (hint: it's more than I am proposing)? Do you know how many vulnerable people refuse to get the vaccine (hint: it's more than I am proposing)? Do you know how many people are jumping the line without regard for the vulnerable (hint: it's more than I am proposing)? How about prisoners at Guantanamo Bay ... should they get it before Matt Moyer and all the vulnerable older people? And with all of that you are worried about 22,000 total vaccines nationally (about 1 percent of Administration's daily plan) some of whom will go to those who are in high risk groups such as older coaches? Maybe it's me but I'm in favor of getting as many shots in arms as quickly as possible. You want to stop this thing and all it's terrible effects - that's the way it will be done. We can stand on ceremony and make differing value judgments about who is essential, who should really get it first after health care workers and first responders (which by the way there is some scientific/medical ethics disagreement over), etc. The clock isn't going to stop ticking for anyone vulnerable  - old or young.

 

GWRising, I was just responding to what you wrote.  I understand you want to change your tune now as you so often seem to do. Be that as it may, I would say, take any extra vaccines and give them to the most vulnerable people first, that would include people who work at grocery stores, transit workers, restaurant workers and so on.  I don't think college basketball players fall into that category.

Never changed any tune here. I said if the NCAA is going to ask basketball players to play a sport that puts them at significant risk (where there aren't masks and social distancing), they have a duty to vaccinate them. 

Also when you speak of vulnerable, I think you generalize too much. A 20-year old basketball player with type I diabetes could be more vulnerable than a 70-year old in good health. We've already seen first hand that this can affect otherwise healthy athletes.

Again, I am not arguing whether someone should play or not or whether it was the correct decision to play. I'm just saying it is near criminal to ask these players to play without a vaccination plan in place. All it will take is God forbid one death and we will see everyone's tune change speaking of changing tunes. We have a way to make this potentially safer for them and the NCAA should avail itself of that if it is going to insist on continuing to play.

Last edited by GWRising (2/09/2021 8:58 pm)

Barry, you are asleep at the wheel!
Time to put this thread to bed.
Let's not minimize the most important issue of today (pandemic) with a horrible GW Basketball team that should end the season now and start preparing for next year.
(Archived and removed by BGF for its insensivity and attacking nature, and subject to action by adminstrators).
Please spare us the misery.

Last edited by BGF (2/10/2021 1:16 pm)

Barry, I believe I may have veered away from the constructive discussion with some of my commentary.  As this thread related to COVID-19, I've had some negative experiences over the past few months, including another very upsetting event recently.  When I saw Matt and his mom, it made me realize what what most important to me.  I know people have different opinions and we all need to respect one-another.   I want to apologize to you and my fellow board members if I started to take the discussion in the wrong direction, or if I offended anyone. That was not my intention.

Last edited by 22ndandF (2/10/2021 4:12 pm)

And here I was hoping someone had updated information on Matt Moyer's health.  I'm closing this thread.  If anyone would like to start another thread that is about Matt, I'm all for it.

Thanks.

 

You can watch the event here: https://twitter.com/i/events/1366496063373275137
You can see the team names here: https://twitter.com/3X3UHoops/status/1376930489638993922
Interesting that they are pairing leagues up this year, I guess it's due to COVID.

The A10/Big East team seems pretty strong on paper. If Evans is fully healthy, he and Daly can go off at the guard spot and Anim from Marquette is a good shooter. Matt wasn't necessarily an offensive rebounder but he is certainly very good on the boards. Seems like they brought Evans and Anim back as alums because they didn't get to hold the tournament last season otherwise it's usually open to just seniors who are not returning to college basketball.

Hope Matt can get that money! Good to hear he has recovered and hopefully there are no long-term effects.

Beast Coast Ballers (Big East/A10 schedule)
Friday 4/2 schedule:
11:30 AM ET vs. American Made (AAC/C-USA)
12:50 PM ET vs. Southwest Souljas (Big 12/Southland)
2:30 PM ET vs. Horizon Valley Hoopers (Horizon/MVC)
3:50 PM ET vs. Wicked Smahts (Ivy/Patriot)

Saturday 4/3 schedule:
8:30 AM ET vs. Western Sky-Walkers (Big Sky/Big West)
9:50 AM ET vs. Metro East Mayhem (America East/MAAC)
11:10 AM ET vs. HBC-U Don't Want None (MEAC/SWAC)

Each game is about 20 minutes or so. The full schedule can be found here: http://www.3x3uhoops.com/Championship_Bracket