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8/20/2021 12:22 pm  #21


Re: Bona's New AD

Rising, that's why I said "possibly" before you were born. Now I know you are just another AARP member like the rest of us!

Tanya has been at the helm now going into her 5th year. Unlike the mens and womens bball coaches, her honeymoon period is over, regardless of the pandemic.

Take a look at the video of Tanya and Nero shot shortly after he was forced out at GW and before the infamous tapes of Nero dry humping a young student came out. They are discussing "risk management" in college athletics of all things. Tanya knew exactly why Nero was bounced out months earlier yet still exposed our university as acting AD to this humiliation - every athletic administrator in America who saw this video had a good laugh at our expense. It's like Harvey Weinstein plugging the "Me Too" movement.

Video can be seen at athleticdirectoru.com/video/vogel-nero-george-washington-risk-management/

 

8/21/2021 3:14 pm  #22


Re: Bona's New AD

Joel Joseph wrote:

Rising, that's why I said "possibly" before you were born. Now I know you are just another AARP member like the rest of us!

Tanya has been at the helm now going into her 5th year. Unlike the mens and womens bball coaches, her honeymoon period is over, regardless of the pandemic.

Take a look at the video of Tanya and Nero shot shortly after he was forced out at GW and before the infamous tapes of Nero dry humping a young student came out. They are discussing "risk management" in college athletics of all things. Tanya knew exactly why Nero was bounced out months earlier yet still exposed our university as acting AD to this humiliation - every athletic administrator in America who saw this video had a good laugh at our expense. It's like Harvey Weinstein plugging the "Me Too" movement.

Video can be seen at athleticdirectoru.com/video/vogel-nero-george-washington-risk-management/

This

 

8/21/2021 3:19 pm  #23


Re: Bona's New AD

BrianPaul wrote:

(BGF: BP's comment deleted for it's malicious-seeming accusations, which shall I remind everyone I just don't want on this site.)

Cannot stress this enough. Nobody cares that Patrick Nero is gay. That is not an issue and should never be an issue. Mike Lonergan did not care. GW did not care. The issue is paying players under the table, inviting them to candle lit dinners after hours, and repeatedly having such instances and more come up to the point that the head coach felt uncomfortable and said something to the president. That president did nothing. Patrick retaliated by making up abuse Allegations which not one of you who say its true cab bring forth ONE source or piece of evidence. The end. Being gay actually helped Nero. If he was a straight male and this was the women's team nobody on here would second guess how disgusting that man is

Last edited by BGF (8/23/2021 12:56 pm)

 

8/22/2021 4:11 pm  #24


Re: Bona's New AD

Glad to see no time worn arguments being forced into this thread.
My concern is where GW is NOW if Bonaventure seems to have expended more resources on its CURRENT AD search.

     Thread Starter
 

8/23/2021 5:56 am  #25


Re: Bona's New AD

(From BGF:  Mentzinger, you're correct, but I'm deleting what you wrote as it simply extends the inappropriate comment by BP and lends it credence.)

(That) will go down as one of the most notable quotes ever here, and that is saying a lot.

Last edited by BGF (8/23/2021 12:57 pm)

 

8/23/2021 9:14 am  #26


Re: Bona's New AD

Gwmayhem wrote:

Three items to discuss here.

First, the notion that a would-be whistleblower would have gone unheard or ignored is reprehensible.  If I'm understanding this correctly, the notion that TV (or anybody in the department) could have approached Knapp or Maltzman and indicated that PN was privately inviting players to his home for dinners, committing NCAA violations by paying a player each time the player knocked on PN's door,  caught on video performing unbelievably inappropriate acts on students and/or recent graduates, etc., only to either not be taken seriously or essentially be ignored is just implausible.  Whistleblower protection should be afforded to all employees when it comes to reporting violations as blatant as these.  If it wasn't, then that is on the school but if it was, then it's on those who sat on their hands and remained silent.

Second, while GWRising is correct that GW will never be able to pull off the sustained level of excellence, year in and year out, as some other programs, I would turn this around and ask whether as fans of this program, have we ever seen a four year stretch that has gone as abysmally as these past four years?  One could even say "past five years" if we count MoJo's first season which had 2 NBA players and far more talent than is commensurate with a first round CBI loser.  No need to rehash why and certainly, TV was not the AD for all of it.  But it should be mentioned and understood that the program has looked like a rudderless ship for years now.  When MoJo was first hired, a common sentiment expressed at that time was that this (scandal) was going to put this program back five years.  The hope at that time was that forecasting to today, the program would be in a much better place than it actually is right now.  This is why this season is so critical....not to go to the dance or to the NIT, but to show real signs of improvement.

Finally, and this is not a commentary on TV because I don't know what she has done and not done, nor do I know what she has wanted to do but has been denied doing, but from the sounds of things, it's time for this program to stop being "half-pregnant."  Either we are going to act like a D1 member school within a top 10 D1 conference by doing what it takes to gain fan support and properly invest in the flagship program or we should just acknowledge that athletics is of little consequence  or interest and drop to D3 or a lesser D1 conference.  It's hard enough competing against certain schools in our conference like Dayton, SLU and VCU.  It's another story when other member schools are surpassing ours in fundraising, facilities, and of course, on-court success.  Yes, this is largely men's basketball-centric for it's this one sport which pays the bills for many others to exist.  

President LeBlanc arrived here from Miami, a school with a big-time athletic program.  Who knows how the next president will feel about athletics but it's sounding more and more like it's some of the Board Members who are the ones stymieing real progress.  Again, if this is the case, it should change.  Let's commit or exit.  Otherwise, we can stay where we are, and continue to reminisce about MJ, KH and ML teams that brought us great memories, while wondering how we will ever get near this point again. 
  

 

Gwmayhem. my understanding is that both Knapp and Malzman (and others) were aware of these very claims long before TV got involved. In fact it was likely ML who brought them forth. Instead, in retaliation, ML was subject to an investigation. ML was never afforded whistleblower protection. Besides the reprehensible mishandling of the whole ML investigation, this is probably why ML had GW over a barrel (legally-speaking) and received a large settlement. 

Your last point is spot on. GW needs to make up its mind as to what it wants to be athletically. Half-measures aren't working. Personally, I'd rather see us go to the Patriot League if the alternative is under-funding and lack of overall commitment and a clear strategy by the Board and Leadership. If you want to play with the big boys then you need to step-up the commitment.

Last edited by GWRising (8/23/2021 9:14 am)

 

8/23/2021 12:09 pm  #27


Re: Bona's New AD

GWRising wrote:

 Personally, I'd rather see us go to the Patriot League if the alternative is under-funding and lack of overall commitment and a clear strategy by the Board and Leadership. If you want to play with the big boys then you need to step-up the commitment.

I would have cringed at this idea in the past, but it looks both feasible, financially prudent and maybe the ONLY path toward sniffing the NCAA Tournament again (assuming that's a goal of the Athletic Department, and nothing we've seen thus far really suggests that it is).
The other stuff mentioned (ad nauseam) about the way it went down with PN-ML-TV is spot on, and it's a pity a few trolls who wish to continue pandering the false narratives that led to the self-destruction of perhaps the greatest GW Basketball teams of the modern era need to be continually rebutted.

Last edited by Mentzinger (8/23/2021 12:10 pm)

 

8/23/2021 1:11 pm  #28


Re: Bona's New AD

For those who are following this thread, please note that I felt that BP crossed a line and took the action I felt necessary.  Some people on this board believe one thing is a fact and others believe other things to be fact.  Aside from this being ancient history (to me, at least), I grew up thinking that if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it.  This board, well, that's pretty difficult! 

But, I just am sick and tired of smearing any past or present player, coach, or administrator.  Back when I ran the basketball gameday at the Smith Center, I told our student staff that if a fan yelled, "Hey, ref, you suck!," that would be ok.  But when the fan yelled, "Hey, ref, your mom sucked my...," that was crossing the line.  It went too personal.

No more comments about What PN or ML may or may not have done in such personal terms.  You can think it, you can discuss it with your kids, you can decide not to support GW at donation time, etc..., but not on any board that I'm running.

 

8/23/2021 7:38 pm  #29


Re: Bona's New AD

BGF wrote:

But, I just am sick and tired of smearing any past or present player, coach, or administrator.  Back when I ran the basketball gameday at the Smith Center, I told our student staff that if a fan yelled, "Hey, ref, you suck!," that would be ok.  But when the fan yelled, "Hey, ref, your mom sucked my...," that was crossing the line.  It went too personal.

Don´t believe Barry? I was one of those who got a dressing down from BGF (a certain Student Association president I attended games with had gone out with one of the ref´s daughters in high school and, since he was a crummy ref screwing GW with his awful calls, we let loose with some too personal info about the fruit of his loins. While not vulgar, we did cross the line).
As for the rehashing of the Title IX issues that led to ML leaving and the denouement of Nero´s reign, what actually happened is known to very few and certainly is not aired on the Internet (aside from certain parties´ spin). We don´t need the endless tedium ventilated here on a constant loop.

Last edited by GW Alum Abroad (8/23/2021 7:48 pm)

 

8/23/2021 8:56 pm  #30


Re: Bona's New AD

It would be really,really odd to ignore this topic as it had a huge effect on GW. And undeniably, still has a huge impact on our broken program.
We're now talking here about joining the Patriot League,which still,sadly, would be challenging, given our record in recent years. This after we won a well known national tournament at Madison Square Garden.
That was just five years ago. We still,recently and reverently, discuss things from more than 30 years ago.
Hard to imagine other fan bases not discussing something of this magnitude.  It's still the proverbial elephant in the room. The fallout continues to affect our limited budget,with a roughly $3 million payout to a former coach,another 7 figure sum reportedly for a former AD, our reputation shattered and still damaged for recruits and coaching staff, huge turnover in players, the few fans left still dispirited and a program with incredibly low expectations.
Don't see how we can cover our eyes and ignore the root cause of the situation.
However,perhaps reasoned,fact-based discussion can be done when and where it's germane,without constant baiting references on inappropriate threads and belittling and contortionist attempts to deny credit to someone.
And unless there is news (and don't think the full story has come out,although a sports website had a lot),it would probably be best in Rewind. In a civil discussion.
  Hopefully, there those who are interested can civilly discuss an absolutely critical and still relevant factor in our basketball program--without trying BGF's patience in providing this GW basketball forum for us.

Last edited by jf (8/23/2021 10:36 pm)

 

8/23/2021 11:05 pm  #31


Re: Bona's New AD

Thanks, JF.  I concur that discussion about how it impacts the program is relevant; your assessment of "reasoned, fact-based discussion" is all I ask for...

That being said, I'll argue all day with you about the idea of leaving the A-10 so we have an easier time making the NCAAs.  That's just silly.  If we went down to a lower-ranked conference, we'll lose the ability to recruit the talent that would allow us to win.  It's like the chicken and egg...doesn't really matter which came first, but they go together.  Lowering our conference quality and lowering our talent...doesn't matter which would come first.

 

8/24/2021 9:10 am  #32


Re: Bona's New AD

BGF, when I suggested that the school needs to commit to athletics or participate at a lower level, my rationale had nothing to do with making it easier to make the NCAA's. There are certain things that this program should be doing to better compete against many schools in our own conference.  These things most assuredly cost money and it sounds like we have certain Board Members who are dead set against this.  From a certain perspective, one can argue that they are not wrong.

Nevertheless, I am glad to hear that donations to the athletic department have increased in each of the past two years.  This past year is no surprise as the public not only saved money on ticket sales but also recognized how badly schools were hurting.  It was announced this week that Howard University brought in more donations over the past year than any time in its history.  For the purpose of this discussion, donations since 3/20 should be ignored because this is an exceptional time in our history and these donations are being used to offset against normal revenue streams.

The question moving forward becomes one of whether GW is willing to do what it takes to stay competitive with other A10 members.  This includes items such as facilities, recruiting, transportation, and yes, marketing.  If we could average 3,500 people per home game, this would put us at a bit over 70% capacity and would still represent an increase of around 30%-40% from what the men's games have been drawing.  I forgot who said it but I agree that I don't see nearly as many 30-45 year olds with young families at the games as should be the case.  This is affordable family entertainment.  It's live basketball without the exorbitant prices of a Wizards game or for that matter, a Terp or Hoya game.  If someone is in the know regarding efforts being made to lure new fans to the games, please educate us.

The notion of moving to a lower conference has more to do with suppressing costs while giving up all dreams associated with competing in big-time sports.  (For example, today, I can still dream about GW reaching a Final 4.  As a member of the Patriot League, not so much.  As a member in D3, not at all.)  Of course I hope that this isn't where we end up but would this really be much worse than being a perennial lower tier program in the A10?  

Sure, this was not the case when people like Dr. Bob Chernak, Steve Bilsky, Russ Ramsey, Randy Levine and even Jack Kvancz had a stake in this program.  Who today is championing this program?  Who is around to make sure that we can effectively compete?  Who is trying to explain to the Board Members who are opposed to spending what it takes to field competitive athletics programs what the value is in doing so?

This is the "half-pregnant" discussion.  Either we should be all in, not as in a Kentucky or a Duke, but as it pertains to staying competitive within our own conference.  We will never have the fan base of a Dayton, SLU or VCU.  Nevertheless, we have a sizable endowment (which I believe has never been allocated to sports in the past) as well as the opportunity to extract greater donation dollars per donor than these other schools due largely in part to the affluent area where GW is situated.

Everyone knows the story about the beautiful girl who stayed home on prom night because she was never asked to go.  She was never asked because everyone just assumed that someone else was already taking her.  Over on the old board, Thinker often talked of Lou Katz, GW's former CFO, who claimed that the school did have money to do certain things but that nobody from athletics ever submitted a proposal for him to consider/take to the Board.

One can only hope that TV and her department will find a way to ascertain more funding.  Not immediately as we are coming out of a pandemic, but hopefully soon.     

 

8/24/2021 1:49 pm  #33


Re: Bona's New AD

Gwmayhem - FWIW, Thinker's Lou Katz story has been laughed at by several of the parties you mentioned. Not saying he didn't tell that to Thinker but it probably was a justification for why he continually held the line on the athletics budget. Great story but not a scintilla of truth to it. Lou Katz held way too much power over the budgeting power and GW athletics paid dearly for it. Think Diaz is better but not sure. The treasurer's position at GW has always had outsized policy decision power and has led to many poor decisions over the years. 

To the larger point, many of you continually shoot the messenger (the AD). GW's problems since Trachtenberg have been fostered a few rungs up the food chain. As I said before the NACDA AD of the Year can't fix the poor strategic vision when it comes to athletics which lies at the feet of the Board and the President's Office.

 

8/24/2021 2:30 pm  #34


Re: Bona's New AD

Is this a slow off season or what?

This thread continues to get discussion despite being moved by Barry - no surprise since it's better than the threads started by the dude where he is having a discussion with himself.

I never thought I would miss having a Kenner season to discuss.

 

8/24/2021 3:01 pm  #35


Re: Bona's New AD

GWRising wrote:

Gwmayhem - FWIW, Thinker's Lou Katz story has been laughed at by several of the parties you mentioned. Not saying he didn't tell that to Thinker but it probably was a justification for why he continually held the line on the athletics budget. Great story but not a scintilla of truth to it. Lou Katz held way too much power over the budgeting power and GW athletics paid dearly for it. Think Diaz is better but not sure. The treasurer's position at GW has always had outsized policy decision power and has led to many poor decisions over the years. 

To the larger point, many of you continually shoot the messenger (the AD). GW's problems since Trachtenberg have been fostered a few rungs up the food chain. As I said before the NACDA AD of the Year can't fix the poor strategic vision when it comes to athletics which lies at the feet of the Board and the President's Office.

GWRising,  that's interesting about the reaction to Thinker's/Lou Katz story.  He shared that story enough times that I was able to remember it all of these years later.  I don't know why he would make up such a story but as you say, it's very possible that Lou Katz did say this to Thinker but was simply giving him the brush off in reality.  Thinker likely did not know that the story he kept telling was really untrue.

As for shooting the messenger, while this is not my intent, the fact remains that both basketball programs have been moribund for a while now.  If you're saying that TV can't accomplish anything of consequence because we have a Board that simply won't allow it to happen, then why have an AD in the first place?  Why have athletics?  Otherwise, there is little choice but to look at the AD and wonder whether someone else might have more success convincing the board of certain initiatives designed to "raise high" the basketball programs.  Put another way, if men's basketball is stagnating, regressing or underperforming, who else besides the coach and the AD should we hold accountable?  That may be unfair to these individuals but then again, nobody forced either to accept their current positions either.

If what you're saying is that no AD could be any more successful as long as our Board continues to stifle any attempted progress, then it's time to get out of big-time college athletics, or find some new (Board) leadership.

  

 

8/24/2021 3:14 pm  #36


Re: Bona's New AD

GWmayhem, I am saying the structural issues make it very difficult (if not impossible) on the AD to have the program we all want to have. These structural issues basically come down to financial commitment by GW which manifests itself in things like salaries, facilities, recruiting budgets. We have a school that ranks at the top in endowment in the A-10 and near the bottom in athletic spending. This is not a new problem but we keep digging the hole deeper.

We can have winning teams here and there but we cannot sustain winning on a consistent basis until the structural issues are fixed. It's as simple as that. .


 

 

8/24/2021 4:47 pm  #37


Re: Bona's New AD

GWRising, so how then should TV's performance be evaluated?  I would hope we can agree that some accountability needs to be applied.  Is it solely on graduation rates of athletes?  Does on-court/on-field performance have any bearing?  Some bearing but not very much?

Yes, the structural issues must be fixed but you seem to be suggesting that no AD, no matter how smart, capable, charming or persuasive he or she may be, has the capability of doing this.  Is that a fair assessment?

 

8/24/2021 5:35 pm  #38


Re: Bona's New AD

I am saying as AD you are definitely swimming upstream at GW. I am not suggesting that TV be given a free pass - certainly she must make the right hires, make sure kids are graduating, NCAA compliance, fundraise etc.. I am saying our expectations can't be unrealistic given the structural issues. For example, if you want your basketball teams to consistently win then you are going to need some changes from the admissions process to the budgets and facilities. And at GW those changes have to be initiated from above.

Last edited by GWRising (8/24/2021 5:36 pm)

 

8/24/2021 5:52 pm  #39


Re: Bona's New AD

The one thing TV has to her advantage over an outside hire perhaps is a vested interest in seeing GW succeed athletically since she is an alum.  I do think, as Mayhem suggests, that the pressure on senior leadership should be near constant from TV to increase resources for basketball (both men's and women's) primarily since its success has the biggest ROI to the school.  It needs to be the first and last thing she asks for when meeting with the powers that be.

If I had any say, TV should be judged by whether or not donations and overall budgets have increased year over year.  Obviously on court success matters too but as Rising says it historically has proven to not be sustainable for one reason or another and I think finances have played a big part.

 

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