Joel Joseph wrote:

Rising, that's why I said "possibly" before you were born. Now I know you are just another AARP member like the rest of us!

Tanya has been at the helm now going into her 5th year. Unlike the mens and womens bball coaches, her honeymoon period is over, regardless of the pandemic.

Take a look at the video of Tanya and Nero shot shortly after he was forced out at GW and before the infamous tapes of Nero dry humping a young student came out. They are discussing "risk management" in college athletics of all things. Tanya knew exactly why Nero was bounced out months earlier yet still exposed our university as acting AD to this humiliation - every athletic administrator in America who saw this video had a good laugh at our expense. It's like Harvey Weinstein plugging the "Me Too" movement.

Video can be seen at athleticdirectoru.com/video/vogel-nero-george-washington-risk-management/

This

Glad to see no time worn arguments being forced into this thread.
My concern is where GW is NOW if Bonaventure seems to have expended more resources on its CURRENT AD search.

Gwmayhem wrote:

Three items to discuss here.

First, the notion that a would-be whistleblower would have gone unheard or ignored is reprehensible.  If I'm understanding this correctly, the notion that TV (or anybody in the department) could have approached Knapp or Maltzman and indicated that PN was privately inviting players to his home for dinners, committing NCAA violations by paying a player each time the player knocked on PN's door,  caught on video performing unbelievably inappropriate acts on students and/or recent graduates, etc., only to either not be taken seriously or essentially be ignored is just implausible.  Whistleblower protection should be afforded to all employees when it comes to reporting violations as blatant as these.  If it wasn't, then that is on the school but if it was, then it's on those who sat on their hands and remained silent.

Second, while GWRising is correct that GW will never be able to pull off the sustained level of excellence, year in and year out, as some other programs, I would turn this around and ask whether as fans of this program, have we ever seen a four year stretch that has gone as abysmally as these past four years?  One could even say "past five years" if we count MoJo's first season which had 2 NBA players and far more talent than is commensurate with a first round CBI loser.  No need to rehash why and certainly, TV was not the AD for all of it.  But it should be mentioned and understood that the program has looked like a rudderless ship for years now.  When MoJo was first hired, a common sentiment expressed at that time was that this (scandal) was going to put this program back five years.  The hope at that time was that forecasting to today, the program would be in a much better place than it actually is right now.  This is why this season is so critical....not to go to the dance or to the NIT, but to show real signs of improvement.

Finally, and this is not a commentary on TV because I don't know what she has done and not done, nor do I know what she has wanted to do but has been denied doing, but from the sounds of things, it's time for this program to stop being "half-pregnant."  Either we are going to act like a D1 member school within a top 10 D1 conference by doing what it takes to gain fan support and properly invest in the flagship program or we should just acknowledge that athletics is of little consequence  or interest and drop to D3 or a lesser D1 conference.  It's hard enough competing against certain schools in our conference like Dayton, SLU and VCU.  It's another story when other member schools are surpassing ours in fundraising, facilities, and of course, on-court success.  Yes, this is largely men's basketball-centric for it's this one sport which pays the bills for many others to exist.  

President LeBlanc arrived here from Miami, a school with a big-time athletic program.  Who knows how the next president will feel about athletics but it's sounding more and more like it's some of the Board Members who are the ones stymieing real progress.  Again, if this is the case, it should change.  Let's commit or exit.  Otherwise, we can stay where we are, and continue to reminisce about MJ, KH and ML teams that brought us great memories, while wondering how we will ever get near this point again. 
  

 

Gwmayhem. my understanding is that both Knapp and Malzman (and others) were aware of these very claims long before TV got involved. In fact it was likely ML who brought them forth. Instead, in retaliation, ML was subject to an investigation. ML was never afforded whistleblower protection. Besides the reprehensible mishandling of the whole ML investigation, this is probably why ML had GW over a barrel (legally-speaking) and received a large settlement. 

Your last point is spot on. GW needs to make up its mind as to what it wants to be athletically. Half-measures aren't working. Personally, I'd rather see us go to the Patriot League if the alternative is under-funding and lack of overall commitment and a clear strategy by the Board and Leadership. If you want to play with the big boys then you need to step-up the commitment.

Last edited by GWRising (8/23/2021 9:14 am)

For those who are following this thread, please note that I felt that BP crossed a line and took the action I felt necessary.  Some people on this board believe one thing is a fact and others believe other things to be fact.  Aside from this being ancient history (to me, at least), I grew up thinking that if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it.  This board, well, that's pretty difficult! 

But, I just am sick and tired of smearing any past or present player, coach, or administrator.  Back when I ran the basketball gameday at the Smith Center, I told our student staff that if a fan yelled, "Hey, ref, you suck!," that would be ok.  But when the fan yelled, "Hey, ref, your mom sucked my...," that was crossing the line.  It went too personal.

No more comments about What PN or ML may or may not have done in such personal terms.  You can think it, you can discuss it with your kids, you can decide not to support GW at donation time, etc..., but not on any board that I'm running.

It would be really,really odd to ignore this topic as it had a huge effect on GW. And undeniably, still has a huge impact on our broken program.
We're now talking here about joining the Patriot League,which still,sadly, would be challenging, given our record in recent years. This after we won a well known national tournament at Madison Square Garden.
That was just five years ago. We still,recently and reverently, discuss things from more than 30 years ago.
Hard to imagine other fan bases not discussing something of this magnitude.  It's still the proverbial elephant in the room. The fallout continues to affect our limited budget,with a roughly $3 million payout to a former coach,another 7 figure sum reportedly for a former AD, our reputation shattered and still damaged for recruits and coaching staff, huge turnover in players, the few fans left still dispirited and a program with incredibly low expectations.
Don't see how we can cover our eyes and ignore the root cause of the situation.
However,perhaps reasoned,fact-based discussion can be done when and where it's germane,without constant baiting references on inappropriate threads and belittling and contortionist attempts to deny credit to someone.
And unless there is news (and don't think the full story has come out,although a sports website had a lot),it would probably be best in Rewind. In a civil discussion.
  Hopefully, there those who are interested can civilly discuss an absolutely critical and still relevant factor in our basketball program--without trying BGF's patience in providing this GW basketball forum for us.

Last edited by jf (8/23/2021 10:36 pm)

BGF, when I suggested that the school needs to commit to athletics or participate at a lower level, my rationale had nothing to do with making it easier to make the NCAA's. There are certain things that this program should be doing to better compete against many schools in our own conference.  These things most assuredly cost money and it sounds like we have certain Board Members who are dead set against this.  From a certain perspective, one can argue that they are not wrong.

Nevertheless, I am glad to hear that donations to the athletic department have increased in each of the past two years.  This past year is no surprise as the public not only saved money on ticket sales but also recognized how badly schools were hurting.  It was announced this week that Howard University brought in more donations over the past year than any time in its history.  For the purpose of this discussion, donations since 3/20 should be ignored because this is an exceptional time in our history and these donations are being used to offset against normal revenue streams.

The question moving forward becomes one of whether GW is willing to do what it takes to stay competitive with other A10 members.  This includes items such as facilities, recruiting, transportation, and yes, marketing.  If we could average 3,500 people per home game, this would put us at a bit over 70% capacity and would still represent an increase of around 30%-40% from what the men's games have been drawing.  I forgot who said it but I agree that I don't see nearly as many 30-45 year olds with young families at the games as should be the case.  This is affordable family entertainment.  It's live basketball without the exorbitant prices of a Wizards game or for that matter, a Terp or Hoya game.  If someone is in the know regarding efforts being made to lure new fans to the games, please educate us.

The notion of moving to a lower conference has more to do with suppressing costs while giving up all dreams associated with competing in big-time sports.  (For example, today, I can still dream about GW reaching a Final 4.  As a member of the Patriot League, not so much.  As a member in D3, not at all.)  Of course I hope that this isn't where we end up but would this really be much worse than being a perennial lower tier program in the A10?  

Sure, this was not the case when people like Dr. Bob Chernak, Steve Bilsky, Russ Ramsey, Randy Levine and even Jack Kvancz had a stake in this program.  Who today is championing this program?  Who is around to make sure that we can effectively compete?  Who is trying to explain to the Board Members who are opposed to spending what it takes to field competitive athletics programs what the value is in doing so?

This is the "half-pregnant" discussion.  Either we should be all in, not as in a Kentucky or a Duke, but as it pertains to staying competitive within our own conference.  We will never have the fan base of a Dayton, SLU or VCU.  Nevertheless, we have a sizable endowment (which I believe has never been allocated to sports in the past) as well as the opportunity to extract greater donation dollars per donor than these other schools due largely in part to the affluent area where GW is situated.

Everyone knows the story about the beautiful girl who stayed home on prom night because she was never asked to go.  She was never asked because everyone just assumed that someone else was already taking her.  Over on the old board, Thinker often talked of Lou Katz, GW's former CFO, who claimed that the school did have money to do certain things but that nobody from athletics ever submitted a proposal for him to consider/take to the Board.

One can only hope that TV and her department will find a way to ascertain more funding.  Not immediately as we are coming out of a pandemic, but hopefully soon.     

Is this a slow off season or what?

This thread continues to get discussion despite being moved by Barry - no surprise since it's better than the threads started by the dude where he is having a discussion with himself.

I never thought I would miss having a Kenner season to discuss.

GWmayhem, I am saying the structural issues make it very difficult (if not impossible) on the AD to have the program we all want to have. These structural issues basically come down to financial commitment by GW which manifests itself in things like salaries, facilities, recruiting budgets. We have a school that ranks at the top in endowment in the A-10 and near the bottom in athletic spending. This is not a new problem but we keep digging the hole deeper.

We can have winning teams here and there but we cannot sustain winning on a consistent basis until the structural issues are fixed. It's as simple as that. .


 

I am saying as AD you are definitely swimming upstream at GW. I am not suggesting that TV be given a free pass - certainly she must make the right hires, make sure kids are graduating, NCAA compliance, fundraise etc.. I am saying our expectations can't be unrealistic given the structural issues. For example, if you want your basketball teams to consistently win then you are going to need some changes from the admissions process to the budgets and facilities. And at GW those changes have to be initiated from above.

Last edited by GWRising (8/24/2021 5:36 pm)