Barry-- this thread probably needs to go in to the dustbin (a.k.a. the "rewind" section).

Gwmayhem wrote:

Mentzinger wrote:

jf wrote:

If GW wouldn't stand by KH after Omargate (which I would also categorize as "fake news"), they were not going to stand by ML after Ciminogate. 

I'd say they stood by KH (and why wouldn't they after the national pub of 26-1), just put so many recruitment restrictions on him he "had to" go out and recruit Matt Allbritton (one example) as a giant middle finger to the admin. Hey ya like me now? Not very much, and so they fired him but not before he collected a few more years of six figs.

Well, if the definition of standing by someone is to allow them to finish the terms of their contract (thereby avoiding being on the hook for a buy-out), then I suppose that GW stood by Hobbs.  In my mind, they absolutely did not.

Let's start with the fact that KH and his staff were recruiting players who either attended fraudulent high schools/prep schools or who at the very least had earned dubious diplomas.  While many schools had no interest in recruiting these players, the fact is that the NCAA Clearinghouse had determined that each was eligible to play college basketball.  This tactic or strategy was by no means done behind anyone's back.  Jack Kvancz knew about it.  Dr. Chernak knew about it.  I can't say for sure but my guess is that President Trachtenberg knew about it as well.

Academically, the players in question turned out to be  a mixed bag.  Omar Williams earned his degree on time.  JR Pinnock left school early to play professionally and support his family, but he has either gone back to earn his degree or is in the process of doing so.  Even Maureece Rice, who I do not believe earned a degree, went to classes and was not in any danger of flunking out.  There were no academic SirValient Brown's to speak of.

Any support for Hobbs crumbled when the New York Times and Washington Post got involved.  Rather than say that the school was providing real academic opportunities to talented athletes, "Omargate" was instead portrayed in the media as GW was breaking the rules.  Again, with all players being cleared to play by the NCAA, no rules were being broken.  While this topic could be morally debated, there was no question that GW was doing anything nefarious.  

As for support, radio silence from Kvancz and Chernak.  Not a single public statement explaining why it was acceptable for GW to recruit the way it had been recruiting.  Not a single statement backing Hobbs on this matter.  But let's not forget Trachtenberg who never met a microphone that he wouldn't speak into.  What he said during the aftermath was "if we knew then what we know now, we never would have recruited Omar Williams."  Yes, he actually said this.  And of course, there was an overreach on the part of the school with respect to academic restrictions which led to a downward spiral under KH.

So while I appreciate almost everything that Mentzinger has brought to this thread, I'll stop short of saying that GW stood by Karl Hobbs.  Despite his continued employment, I don't see things this way at all.
 

I think the salient quote in the NYT (from Chernak? Trachtenberg?) was very defensive of KH, something to the effect of :"As a private institution, GW does not need to require a HS diploma for admission," which was meant to back Hobbs and Omar but of course made us sound like College Park CC (without the National Championship) and was just another brilliant chapter in the GW PR Manual. 
 

Barry, I'll echo GWRising's sentiments.  The fact is that everyone here but The Dude has gotten over Lonergan.  Just because someone may take the time to defend him when uncalled for shots are taken at him doesn't mean that this person isn't "over him."

I've tried pointing this out on multiple occasions.  He has no regard for the way you'd like things done here.  You would like all of us to move past ML but the Bob Knight thread is on this site for no other reason but to initiate a debate about Lonergan.   You've indicated that former poster names from the old board should not be referenced here but The Dude continues to ignore your wishes.  I really don't use the word "troll" lightly but the fact is that this is precisely what The Dude has been doing for many years now.  And, these antics are not solely about Lonergan.  It's any and every time he drives a point into the ground, many of these being far more innocuous (like Gonzaga and Shaka and Crean and while it's been a while, the way he would attack former players like Jorgensen and Roland). 


 

Mentzinger, if I had to rank GW PR blunders related to athletics they would fall something like this ...

1. ML
2. Omargate
3. Richie Parker

We've discussed #1. But as to #2 and #3, these were both at the hands of the Trachtenberg Administration. While I like both individuals (Trachtenberg and Chernak) and think they did a great job generally while at GW, both suffered from the inability to keep their mouths shut at inopportune times. When the Washington Post came calling for a story on Omargate, the response should have been "no comment" just like Georgetown did in relation to another kid from Philly Lutheran. Instead, we add several column inches to the story with a rambling "explanation" that managed to throw both Omar and the coaching staff under the bus. There is a reason why Omar has nothing much to do with GW anymore and that's a shame. 

As for Richie Parker, whether we should have recruited him or not can be fairly scrutinized but what was Trachtenberg thinking when he or his team came up with the brilliant PR move to offer the victim a scholarship (so that both could attend the same institution) to try and deflect away from the issue of why we were recruiting him in the face of rape and sexual assault charges?

GW has repeatedly suffered from a colossal failure to read the room throughout the almost 40 years I have been involved. These three instances were the ones that most affected athletics. There have been many others across campus.

Last edited by GWRising (1/05/2022 2:04 pm)

Ciminogate comment not mine, but accurate in terms of ML, who not only was thrown under the bus,
but it's not too hard to see that the GW Athletic Department drove the bus over him. This seemed clearly orchestrated and only needed one person among the apparently many sought out to fall for the storyline.
  KH is more nuanced, plus he did his crazy thing where he quickly and sadly turned on us, his supporters.
  Do agree with GWRising that GW fails to "read the room."
But would add the past six years were the worst because of all the bad publicity GW received over test scores, hiring fiascos including someone linked to Michigan State and evil Dr. Nassar, speaking of which-- the nonsensical pap about role model Izzo who would have long been fired under GW's alleged "standards" for ML as he did worse and also his odd Nassar-related comments, not answering unproven Lonergan allegations (hanging him out to dry by design), the odd retaining of the ML staff given the pretext for dismissal along with making Mojo head coach, and the grasping "Turnaround Artist" moniker that would now haunt GW if anyone cared about us.
   This is forgetting or bypassing numerous other GW PR disasters in recent years.
For some sad reason, still have a huge amount of residual affection for the university.
But the GW public face of recent years pretty much could turn diamonds into dung.
 

Skittles should post the whole story. 
Because it is not pretty and bizarre that no one outside of Deadspin, including The Hatchet, ever picked up on it significantly.
   As I posted earlier and Skittles noted more directly, a man's reputation and ability to perform his job at a high level were and are part of this. So the full story must be told.

Mentz, I don't think you will have any luck getting ML up to Maine (although he did seem to enjoy Vermont).
On the other hand, I would take the job in a second. Maine is beautiful. UMaine has had some success in certain sports over the years - baseball comes to mind. The fact that Nero was their AD at one time is just a bonus. Right after the DeadSpin article came out, the Maine paper ran a front page story with the headline "former AD caught on lewd video with student". I'm still waiting for the WP story on that one!

I ran into ML last Summer at the Delaware Shore. He seemed content, happy and very busy (he has a tone of kids who all play sports). Doubt he thinks much of GW unless he's looking at the box scores, which probably brings a smile to his face the last 4 years.

Several years ago, Herve provided an analysis on the old board that attempted to correlate multiple screen names to a specific poster.  In case you don't remember or are unaware, it was determined that The Dude had over 60 screen names attributed to him, far more than any other poster.  And here you go again, talking about fake names.

Gall or stupidity?   I say stupidity but everyone should decide for themselves.