GW Hoops

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



1/05/2022 9:52 am  #41


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

Mentzinger wrote:

jf wrote:

If GW wouldn't stand by KH after Omargate (which I would also categorize as "fake news"), they were not going to stand by ML after Ciminogate. 

I'd say they stood by KH (and why wouldn't they after the national pub of 26-1), just put so many recruitment restrictions on him he "had to" go out and recruit Matt Allbritton (one example) as a giant middle finger to the admin. Hey ya like me now? Not very much, and so they fired him but not before he collected a few more years of six figs.

Well, if the definition of standing by someone is to allow them to finish the terms of their contract (thereby avoiding being on the hook for a buy-out), then I suppose that GW stood by Hobbs.  In my mind, they absolutely did not.

Let's start with the fact that KH and his staff were recruiting players who either attended fraudulent high schools/prep schools or who at the very least had earned dubious diplomas.  While many schools had no interest in recruiting these players, the fact is that the NCAA Clearinghouse had determined that each was eligible to play college basketball.  This tactic or strategy was by no means done behind anyone's back.  Jack Kvancz knew about it.  Dr. Chernak knew about it.  I can't say for sure but my guess is that President Trachtenberg knew about it as well.

Academically, the players in question turned out to be  a mixed bag.  Omar Williams earned his degree on time.  JR Pinnock left school early to play professionally and support his family, but he has either gone back to earn his degree or is in the process of doing so.  Even Maureece Rice, who I do not believe earned a degree, went to classes and was not in any danger of flunking out.  There were no academic SirValient Brown's to speak of.

Any support for Hobbs crumbled when the New York Times and Washington Post got involved.  Rather than say that the school was providing real academic opportunities to talented athletes, "Omargate" was instead portrayed in the media as GW was breaking the rules.  Again, with all players being cleared to play by the NCAA, no rules were being broken.  While this topic could be morally debated, there was no question that GW was doing anything nefarious.  

As for support, radio silence from Kvancz and Chernak.  Not a single public statement explaining why it was acceptable for GW to recruit the way it had been recruiting.  Not a single statement backing Hobbs on this matter.  But let's not forget Trachtenberg who never met a microphone that he wouldn't speak into.  What he said during the aftermath was "if we knew then what we know now, we never would have recruited Omar Williams."  Yes, he actually said this.  And of course, there was an overreach on the part of the school with respect to academic restrictions which led to a downward spiral under KH.

So while I appreciate almost everything that Mentzinger has brought to this thread, I'll stop short of saying that GW stood by Karl Hobbs.  Despite his continued employment, I don't see things this way at all.
 

 

1/05/2022 10:16 am  #42


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

Barry-- this thread probably needs to go in to the dustbin (a.k.a. the "rewind" section).

 

1/05/2022 10:35 am  #43


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

Barry -

Most everyone here knows the MO of the Dude. He doesn't give a rat's ass about Bobby Knight or the now 4 -year old 30 for 30. Rather, he posts things here unprompted designed to bring the conversation back to ML so he can take his gratuitous and false shots. As Gwmayhem says, the Dude is the consummate Troll.. 

Really, something needs to be done about this or almost every conversation is going to ultimately devolve into a discussion of ML. 

It's easy to say don't feed the troll but when the troll interferes in virtually every thread a response is warranted. My only question is no one nearly 6 years later has such a jones for ML that he would continue to post at every chance. My suspicion is that this person has more than a passing interest in this matter. 
 

 

1/05/2022 1:01 pm  #44


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

Gwmayhem wrote:

Mentzinger wrote:

jf wrote:

If GW wouldn't stand by KH after Omargate (which I would also categorize as "fake news"), they were not going to stand by ML after Ciminogate. 

I'd say they stood by KH (and why wouldn't they after the national pub of 26-1), just put so many recruitment restrictions on him he "had to" go out and recruit Matt Allbritton (one example) as a giant middle finger to the admin. Hey ya like me now? Not very much, and so they fired him but not before he collected a few more years of six figs.

Well, if the definition of standing by someone is to allow them to finish the terms of their contract (thereby avoiding being on the hook for a buy-out), then I suppose that GW stood by Hobbs.  In my mind, they absolutely did not.

Let's start with the fact that KH and his staff were recruiting players who either attended fraudulent high schools/prep schools or who at the very least had earned dubious diplomas.  While many schools had no interest in recruiting these players, the fact is that the NCAA Clearinghouse had determined that each was eligible to play college basketball.  This tactic or strategy was by no means done behind anyone's back.  Jack Kvancz knew about it.  Dr. Chernak knew about it.  I can't say for sure but my guess is that President Trachtenberg knew about it as well.

Academically, the players in question turned out to be  a mixed bag.  Omar Williams earned his degree on time.  JR Pinnock left school early to play professionally and support his family, but he has either gone back to earn his degree or is in the process of doing so.  Even Maureece Rice, who I do not believe earned a degree, went to classes and was not in any danger of flunking out.  There were no academic SirValient Brown's to speak of.

Any support for Hobbs crumbled when the New York Times and Washington Post got involved.  Rather than say that the school was providing real academic opportunities to talented athletes, "Omargate" was instead portrayed in the media as GW was breaking the rules.  Again, with all players being cleared to play by the NCAA, no rules were being broken.  While this topic could be morally debated, there was no question that GW was doing anything nefarious.  

As for support, radio silence from Kvancz and Chernak.  Not a single public statement explaining why it was acceptable for GW to recruit the way it had been recruiting.  Not a single statement backing Hobbs on this matter.  But let's not forget Trachtenberg who never met a microphone that he wouldn't speak into.  What he said during the aftermath was "if we knew then what we know now, we never would have recruited Omar Williams."  Yes, he actually said this.  And of course, there was an overreach on the part of the school with respect to academic restrictions which led to a downward spiral under KH.

So while I appreciate almost everything that Mentzinger has brought to this thread, I'll stop short of saying that GW stood by Karl Hobbs.  Despite his continued employment, I don't see things this way at all.
 

I think the salient quote in the NYT (from Chernak? Trachtenberg?) was very defensive of KH, something to the effect of :"As a private institution, GW does not need to require a HS diploma for admission," which was meant to back Hobbs and Omar but of course made us sound like College Park CC (without the National Championship) and was just another brilliant chapter in the GW PR Manual. 
 

 

1/05/2022 1:03 pm  #45


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

And yes, as long as The Crude continues to post about ML, I will continue to post rebuttals to all his ridiculous assertions about him. As long as The Dude is on the board, that's what y'all will get.

 

1/05/2022 1:03 pm  #46


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

Barry, I'll echo GWRising's sentiments.  The fact is that everyone here but The Dude has gotten over Lonergan.  Just because someone may take the time to defend him when uncalled for shots are taken at him doesn't mean that this person isn't "over him."

I've tried pointing this out on multiple occasions.  He has no regard for the way you'd like things done here.  You would like all of us to move past ML but the Bob Knight thread is on this site for no other reason but to initiate a debate about Lonergan.   You've indicated that former poster names from the old board should not be referenced here but The Dude continues to ignore your wishes.  I really don't use the word "troll" lightly but the fact is that this is precisely what The Dude has been doing for many years now.  And, these antics are not solely about Lonergan.  It's any and every time he drives a point into the ground, many of these being far more innocuous (like Gonzaga and Shaka and Crean and while it's been a while, the way he would attack former players like Jorgensen and Roland). 


 

 

1/05/2022 1:06 pm  #47


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

Mentz, that came from Chernak so it's entirely possible that we are both correct.  Chernak did continue to have KH's back while Trachtenberg (based on the quote I supplied earlier) most certainly did not.

 

 

1/05/2022 2:02 pm  #48


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

Mentzinger, if I had to rank GW PR blunders related to athletics they would fall something like this ...

1. ML
2. Omargate
3. Richie Parker

We've discussed #1. But as to #2 and #3, these were both at the hands of the Trachtenberg Administration. While I like both individuals (Trachtenberg and Chernak) and think they did a great job generally while at GW, both suffered from the inability to keep their mouths shut at inopportune times. When the Washington Post came calling for a story on Omargate, the response should have been "no comment" just like Georgetown did in relation to another kid from Philly Lutheran. Instead, we add several column inches to the story with a rambling "explanation" that managed to throw both Omar and the coaching staff under the bus. There is a reason why Omar has nothing much to do with GW anymore and that's a shame. 

As for Richie Parker, whether we should have recruited him or not can be fairly scrutinized but what was Trachtenberg thinking when he or his team came up with the brilliant PR move to offer the victim a scholarship (so that both could attend the same institution) to try and deflect away from the issue of why we were recruiting him in the face of rape and sexual assault charges?

GW has repeatedly suffered from a colossal failure to read the room throughout the almost 40 years I have been involved. These three instances were the ones that most affected athletics. There have been many others across campus.

Last edited by GWRising (1/05/2022 2:04 pm)

 

1/05/2022 3:08 pm  #49


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

If you guys knew the whole story you'd know how disrespectful and inappropriate Dude is being every time he does this. ML did what he did to protect his players. The school did so wrong by him that even that payout isn't enough. A man lost his reputation and career over this while some of you (mostly one now that the other was banned) continue to defend a guy who used his power and who took advantage of the same players you claim to love and support on a daily basis. One day maybe I'll give you the whole story. It'll hurt a lot of people. And a few will get outed. But maybe it can put to rest the horse sh^t the post put out and GW continues to defend to this day.

 

1/05/2022 3:22 pm  #50


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

Ciminogate comment not mine, but accurate in terms of ML, who not only was thrown under the bus,
but it's not too hard to see that the GW Athletic Department drove the bus over him. This seemed clearly orchestrated and only needed one person among the apparently many sought out to fall for the storyline.
  KH is more nuanced, plus he did his crazy thing where he quickly and sadly turned on us, his supporters.
  Do agree with GWRising that GW fails to "read the room."
But would add the past six years were the worst because of all the bad publicity GW received over test scores, hiring fiascos including someone linked to Michigan State and evil Dr. Nassar, speaking of which-- the nonsensical pap about role model Izzo who would have long been fired under GW's alleged "standards" for ML as he did worse and also his odd Nassar-related comments, not answering unproven Lonergan allegations (hanging him out to dry by design), the odd retaining of the ML staff given the pretext for dismissal along with making Mojo head coach, and the grasping "Turnaround Artist" moniker that would now haunt GW if anyone cared about us.
   This is forgetting or bypassing numerous other GW PR disasters in recent years.
For some sad reason, still have a huge amount of residual affection for the university.
But the GW public face of recent years pretty much could turn diamonds into dung.
 

 

1/05/2022 5:32 pm  #51


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

The only reason the Richie Parker thing would be #3 was because of when it happened.  Could you image if that same exact scenario played out during the post #MeToo movement.  Everyone would have been fired for that.

 

1/05/2022 5:57 pm  #52


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

Skittles should post the whole story. 
Because it is not pretty and bizarre that no one outside of Deadspin, including The Hatchet, ever picked up on it significantly.
   As I posted earlier and Skittles noted more directly, a man's reputation and ability to perform his job at a high level were and are part of this. So the full story must be told.

 

1/05/2022 6:03 pm  #53


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

Rising, a close #4 would be the terrorist GW hired and then quickly got rid of (probably with a large payout) years ago. Again, had they done their due diligence, person never would have been hired. I learned during the ML fiasco that GW relied on a guy from an outside firm for counsel. I think this person and firm disappeared once LeBlanc came in - maybe he figured it out after all the screw ups.

Barry, I will join in on what is the obvious - dude is a fraud with an agenda (maybe ML denied his request to have his kid perform ball boy/girl duties at a game?) That makes 90% of the posters here telling you what you already know. Now with Brian Paul gone, dude is the only one left who can't play by the rules.

0509, as everyone else has already said, ML is gone and playing the stock market with the cash GW was forced to pay him. Every time dudette brings up his name we will have 10 rehashing the inept university decision making and reasons why we still suck 6 seasons later. Also, GW will never win a post season tournament in your life time (NCAA, NIT, CIB or any of the other joke tourney's).

 

1/05/2022 6:15 pm  #54


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

Mentz, I don't think you will have any luck getting ML up to Maine (although he did seem to enjoy Vermont).
On the other hand, I would take the job in a second. Maine is beautiful. UMaine has had some success in certain sports over the years - baseball comes to mind. The fact that Nero was their AD at one time is just a bonus. Right after the DeadSpin article came out, the Maine paper ran a front page story with the headline "former AD caught on lewd video with student". I'm still waiting for the WP story on that one!

I ran into ML last Summer at the Delaware Shore. He seemed content, happy and very busy (he has a tone of kids who all play sports). Doubt he thinks much of GW unless he's looking at the box scores, which probably brings a smile to his face the last 4 years.

 

1/07/2022 3:25 pm  #55


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

While Lonergan was Coach, one particular "fan" endlessly criticized him, blamed him for two years of losses with Hobbs players, when GW began to win the next 3 years every single loss was blamed on "bad Coaching" from the same guy

When GW fired Lonergan for abusing the players, suddenly that "fan" was some Lonergan Apostle, complete with a new cadre of fake names echoing every word.

6 years later, the same thing remains, the abusive Coach remains out of the sport, the fake names emerge any time his name is mentioned.  



 

     Thread Starter
 

1/07/2022 4:04 pm  #56


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

Several years ago, Herve provided an analysis on the old board that attempted to correlate multiple screen names to a specific poster.  In case you don't remember or are unaware, it was determined that The Dude had over 60 screen names attributed to him, far more than any other poster.  And here you go again, talking about fake names.

Gall or stupidity?   I say stupidity but everyone should decide for themselves.

 

1/11/2022 5:42 pm  #57


Re: The Last Days of Bobby Knight

Remember when you were assuring us he'd be hired again right away Mailvan?

That was 6 years ago. What happened there?

 

     Thread Starter
 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum