GW Hoops » 2023-24 Schedule

Long Suffering Fan · 7/31/2023 11:35 am

Forgive my ignorance but what is the NET era?

I would not want us to become a whipping boy for the high majors, but a couple of games against stiffer competitioin, why not? It is a high end barometer to see where we are individually and as a team, and it also generates some excitement and interest for a program that has too few eyes looking at it.

GW69 · 7/31/2023 11:55 am

Ditto LSF-Also help in recruiting I imagine.

jf · 7/31/2023 12:17 pm

It might not have panned out the way we hoped and the name opponent wasn't great last year, but the early win over South Carolina sure felt good.
And even if we lose, it doesn't hurt to have at least a real test or two.

GWRising · 7/31/2023 12:29 pm

GW0509 wrote:
Gwmayhem wrote:
Are we genuinely concerned just yet about scheduling in the NET era? Let's look at St. Joe's who may have more upside coming into this season than GW does.

Road game at Kentucky. Road game at Villanova. Road game at College of Charleston. Neutral court game against Iona.

The Hawks are willing to give themselves a few tests. I'll bet the players love this. And, this will be good preparation for their A10 schedule.

So far, I've yet to see or hear about an OOC schedule for GW that's anywhere close to approaching this. Let these young men test themselves, at least on a few occasions.

Reminds me of SLU last season.

Had an OOC of Memphis, Maryland, Providence, Auburn, Iona, Boise State, Drake. Went 3-4 in those games. Finished 21-12 with no chance at an NCAA At Large or the NIT.

Part of that is because there were 5 (5-0) Q4 and 10 (8-2) Q3 conference games. SLU only had 1 Q1 conference game which they lost to VCU @ VCU.

Meanwhile, the MWC had 0 Q4 conference games. The last MWC team in the tournament, Nevada, played 6 Q1 conference games and 6 Q2.

The reason why GW should schedule with the NET in mind is not because anyone thinks GW is going dancing this year. Instead, it's important to inflate the A-10's NET as a whole in order to get a bigger chance at an at-large for the likes of SJU this year or SLU last season. That extra tournament allotment allows GW to maybe get a better buy game opponent the next season or give our ACs a raise.

I agree with you that college basketball was more fun when teams actually scheduled hard and I'm sure it's fun for the players too. But the incentives to get an at-large bid are to schedule cupcakes.

In response, I would say that it's GW's job to play a schedule that best fits GW and its prospects in 2023-24. At the time most of the 2023-24 schedule was locked-in, CC didn't have many players on his roster. Hard to fault him for not scheduling tougher games when he had no idea what most of his roster would look like. Conversely, some teams may not have wanted to schedule GW without knowing what they were likely up against.

That said, I think you will see a change in the future as GW and potential opponents are better able to assess GW's roster and likely performance in advance of scheduling given likely far less roster turnover. I'd give CC a mulligan this year.

H&R..71 · 7/31/2023 12:31 pm

The ranking algorithms have always had faults. Like not taking into account momentum going into March, or early metrics when nobody knows anything in November.
But when we look back to our signature wins (Virginia, Maryland, Dayton, etc)over the years, they’re priceless.
FAU was like 29-1 last year, and their ability was questioned until they missed going to the championship game by inches. They did the intangibles.
Let’s beat the teams we’re supposed to beat. Make noise in A10, and seek to ratchet up the competition next year.

Free Quebec · 7/31/2023 12:52 pm

H&R..71 wrote:
The ranking algorithms have always had faults. Like not taking into account momentum going into March, or early metrics when nobody knows anything in November.
But when we look back to our signature wins (Virginia, Maryland, Dayton, etc)over the years, they’re priceless.
FAU was like 29-1 last year, and their ability was questioned until they missed going to the championship game by inches. They did the intangibles.
Let’s beat the teams we’re supposed to beat. Make noise in A10, and seek to ratchet up the competition next year.

To be fair, FAU was a blown call away from a likely first round exit. Amazing how much one little break can change perceptions.

LSF, I think the NET era would refer to the time since the ncaa switched from using RPI to NET for its computer ratings for tourney selection.

GW0509 · 7/31/2023 1:51 pm

Long Suffering Fan wrote:
Forgive my ignorance but what is the NET era?

The NET is the NCAA Evaluation Tool and it is the algorithm the NCAA selection committee uses to measure teams. It replaced the RPI (which, fwiw, had its own faults).

The biggest problem with the NET is that "net efficiency" is included in the calculation. Like a KenPom rating, net efficiency is offensive efficiency minus defensive efficiency. Unlike margin of victory, which is capped at 10 points in the equation, net efficiency is uncapped. The incentive then is to run up the score, while continuing to play tough defense. This is why you'll see BCS schools keeping their starters in against FAMU to win 103-45.

The rating system ranks games in quadrants 1 through 4. For leagues like the A-10, you really need multiple teams in the NET top 135 before conference play starts. Top 135 are teams where the games will be considered either Quad 1 or Quad 2 depending on where the game is played. It's very hard for teams in the A-10 to become a Q1 or Q2 team later in the season because they play so few Q1 or Q2 opponents.

For leagues like the Big 10, their entire conference was Q1 or Q2 except for Minnesota. Every win was considered a quality win and basically every loss no big deal.

The Mountain West has sent 4 teams to the NCAA tournament each of the last two years. Even though the NET supposed to measure the strength of a team, no team has made it past the first round other than SDSU (who obviously deserved to be in but was the MWC auto-bid).

I too have enjoyed our signature wins throughout the years and was thrilled JC was able to sneak in a game against UMD on the road. But the point of my first post a ways back was to point out that the NET has really messed up incentives and I wouldn't be surprised if Bernadette has instructed A-10 teams to schedule like the MWC.

Last edited by GW0509 (7/31/2023 1:59 pm)

Long Suffering Fan · 7/31/2023 2:37 pm

Thank you Free.

Gwmayhem · 8/01/2023 8:38 am

It's become pretty easy to predict some responses here. So again, I am not asking for a killer OOC schedule or anything close to that. Again, look what St. Joe's is doing (and they are a great example since they are a comparable program to ours in many ways). Give the team a handful of opportunities to really test themselves. It might be that these are out there and we just don't know about them yet but thus far, there's been no sign.

I can appreciate Rising's point to an extent. While CC certainly knew there was going to be much turnover from last year's team, he could not know precisely what type of team he would be able to field. On the other hand, this may now be the reality of the sport, at least until the transfer portal becomes far less occupied. What will truly be critical is whether the NCAA will be granting hardship waivers for second (or more) time transfers. Joe Bamisile is a great test case, having already transferred twice and now seeking a third move. I get that each case is examined individually but if it's going to continue to be easy to arrange a second transfer (let alone a third), then many coaches will not know what type of team they will be fielding from year-to-year, thereby weakening the reasoning that Rising has offered.

GWRising · 8/01/2023 10:17 am

Gwmayhem wrote:
It's become pretty easy to predict some responses here. So again, I am not asking for a killer OOC schedule or anything close to that. Again, look what St. Joe's is doing (and they are a great example since they are a comparable program to ours in many ways). Give the team a handful of opportunities to really test themselves. It might be that these are out there and we just don't know about them yet but thus far, there's been no sign.

I can appreciate Rising's point to an extent. While CC certainly knew there was going to be much turnover from last year's team, he could not know precisely what type of team he would be able to field. On the other hand, this may now be the reality of the sport, at least until the transfer portal becomes far less occupied. What will truly be critical is whether the NCAA will be granting hardship waivers for second (or more) time transfers. Joe Bamisile is a great test case, having already transferred twice and now seeking a third move. I get that each case is examined individually but if it's going to continue to be easy to arrange a second transfer (let alone a third), then many coaches will not know what type of team they will be fielding from year-to-year, thereby weakening the reasoning that Rising has offered.

While every situation is unique, I do think in this case the point is strong. This was not the case where a few spots were open on a team with a veteran coach who had a track record of performing at or near a certain level with the same program. This is a relatively new coach establishing his program for the first time in terms of personnel and early on looking at the prospect of filling perhaps as many as a dozen spots with transfers and freshmen. Recall that it was not a certainty that even James Bishop would return during the Spring.

Yes, some roster turnover at most schools is likely in the age of transfers. But there are degrees and circumstances and I think in this case, CC did the right thing everything considered. I think your point would be well taken if CC was not putting together his first roster, GW had established itself, and GW had less overall roster turnover.

H&R..71 · 8/01/2023 10:49 am

Very interesting and informative discussion. While still trying to understand current framework for metrics (old RPI vs. new NET) and transfer regs, and NIL rules, scheduling logistics are beyond me.
Who has final say on scheduling? Is it by committee?

I do know that historically some programs want to test their metal to the max and get criticized. Others want cupcakes and W’s. Others include coaching relationships as a factor.

St. Joes is slightly different from GW in that they have a
traditional connection to the Big 5, Philly, PA, and south NJ schools. That brings in Villanova, Temple, Penn, Penn State, Drexel, Princeton, etc as regular options. Unfortunately, we don’t have that with Gtown, Md, and Virginia.

I defer to CC, who I trust will grow the team and schedule as he sees fit. If we go 23-9 and miss the big dance based on strength of schedule so be it.

Florida Colonial · 8/07/2023 9:59 am

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BC · 8/07/2023 11:03 am

is out: https://gwsports.com/news/2023/8/7/mens-basketball-unveils-2023-24-non-conference-schedule

Florida Colonial · 8/07/2023 11:04 am

2023-24 GW Men's Basketball Non-Conference Schedule
Monday, Nov. 6    STONEHILL
Saturday, Nov. 11 WILLIAM & MARY
Tuesday, Nov. 14 HOFSTRA
Saturday, Nov. 18 NEW HAMPSHIRE
Friday, Nov. 24 Ohio (Nassau, Bahamas)
Saturday, Nov. 25 Middle Tennessee/UIC (Nassau, Bahamas)
Sunday, Nov. 26 TBD (Nassau, Bahamas)
Friday, Dec. 1 at South Carolina
Tuesday, Dec. 5      NAVY
Saturday, Dec. 9     COPPIN STATE
Tuesday, Dec. 12 BOWIE STATE
Thursday, Dec. 21 ALCORN STATE
Saturday, Dec. 30 MARYLAND EASTERN SHORE

dmvpiranha · 8/07/2023 11:08 am

I know we should be playing a weaker schedule this year given the number of new players on the team but...yeah this is really bad even taking that into consideration.

Gwmayhem · 8/07/2023 11:11 am

Karl Hobbs is uncontrollably giggling at this schedule.

Gwmayhem · 8/07/2023 11:13 am

Let's hope the first conference game isn't against Dayton or VCU. That would feel like an entirely different sport after playing these games.

Alum '04 · 8/07/2023 11:14 am

Florida Colonial wrote:
2023-24 GW Men's Basketball Non-Conference Schedule
Monday, Nov. 6    STONEHILL
Saturday, Nov. 11 WILLIAM & MARY
Tuesday, Nov. 14 HOFSTRA
Saturday, Nov. 18 NEW HAMPSHIRE
Friday, Nov. 24 Ohio (Nassau, Bahamas)
Saturday, Nov. 25 Middle Tennessee/UIC (Nassau, Bahamas)
Sunday, Nov. 26 TBD (Nassau, Bahamas)
Friday, Dec. 1 at South Carolina
Tuesday, Dec. 5      NAVY
Saturday, Dec. 9     COPPIN STATE
Tuesday, Dec. 12 BOWIE STATE
Thursday, Dec. 21 ALCORN STATE
Saturday, Dec. 30 MARYLAND EASTERN SHORE

Absolutely pitiful

Alum '04 · 8/07/2023 11:15 am

dmvpiranha wrote:
I know we should be playing a weaker schedule this year given the number of new players on the team but...yeah this is really bad even taking that into consideration.

Mike Brey approves of this schedule

GW0509 · 8/07/2023 11:31 am

Call this schedule Baked & Wired because those are some cupcakes.

The only terrible part of this schedule is we play another D2 team. At least we have the connection to BSU's HC but otherwise it's a waste of a game. Everything else is at least defensible given our situation.

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