Bishop concluded his GW career with 2,103 points with 11 games, ranking third all-time in program history. He also ranks among the Revolutionaries' all-time top-10 in 3-pointers made (220, t-3rd), field goals made (706, 4th), free throws made (471, 4th) and assists (447, t-6th). He joins all-time leading scorer Chris Monroe as the only GW player to rank in the top five in points, field goals, 3-pointers and free throws.

When it comes to HOF or Mt. Rushmore topics, I stand by what someone once said about the Baseball HOF: Can you tell the story of baseball without mentioning this person?  

If it's strictly players, I'd say you can't tell the story of GW basketball without the following 5:
Holup
Mike Brown
Yinka
Shawnta
Pops (I think Carl Elliott is the more accomplished player, but Pops was the face of that core group).

If we add in coaches, then I think Jarvis has to go in there somewhere (maybe replacing Mike Brown?)

 

Last edited by GW0509 (4/30/2024 10:12 am)

Mentioning Bishop's stats and all-time school rankings to make this argument is a misleading, apples to oranges comparison after considering the multitude of changes in the sport (invention of the shot clock and then reducing the amount of time to shoot, introduction of the three-point shot, expanding number of games played per season) which all favor gaudier statistics for more contemporary players.    When we then factor JB's struggles on defense along with his team's lack of postseason success over four seasons, it's not a stretch to suggest that I don't believe any other person who follows GW basketball would list JB among the school's five greatest players.  That's not hyperbole; I genuinely believe this. 

Carl over JBIV sounds prudent, I'd have to amend to say I concur about that

Shawnta Holup Carl Yinka Chris is a solid top 5

winning is a team event, I don't judge a player harshly because there wasn't enough talent around him.

Yuta has a real solid top 5 spot, if you have room for 6 or 7 def Yuta and maybe TC too

 

I’m an old timer and think Walt Sr. is the one of the most underappreciated players at GW and in my mind one of the best all-around players we’ve had (Holup was a bit before my time). He put together two of the best seasons ever at GW. As a junior, his line was 17.2 ppg, 11.7 rpg and 55.2% from the field. As a senior, he was 22.8 ppg. 13.0 rpg, and 59.4% from the field. After a taste of pro ball in the USA (old ABA), he went on to win numerous championships in the European Leagues, and in 2008 was recognized as one of the 50 greatest contributors to the European League, along side the likes of Toni Kukoc, Manu Ginobili, Bob McAdoo, and Arvydas Sabonis. When I was traveling in Europe during the mid-seventies, his name would regularly headline the sports pages, where he was known simply as “Walter”. So, he gets my vote here.

As far as others, Shawnta was the best point guard we ever had, and the most disruptive player (against other teams), and Pat Tallent, the best shooting guard (brother Bob only played one season, but what a season). At Center, it’s a tossup between Mike Brown, because Brown had a full career at GW, while Yinka left after his sophomore year.

The final spot could go to a number of different players, all mentioned in previous posts, but for the most part some of the guys were great scorers (like JBIV, Sir Valient, and even Chris Monroe), but were not as good all-around players as Hall, Pops, Yegor, Yuta, and Carl Elliot and maybe some others.

Last edited by xAC (5/01/2024 6:58 pm)

How about the Feldman twins in the 60's? Beautiful fast breaks.

GW0509 wrote:

When it comes to HOF or Mt. Rushmore topics, I stand by what someone once said about the Baseball HOF: Can you tell the story of baseball without mentioning this person?  

If it's strictly players, I'd say you can't tell the story of GW basketball without the following 5:
Holup
Mike Brown
Yinka
Shawnta
Pops (I think Carl Elliott is the more accomplished player, but Pops was the face of that core group).

If we add in coaches, then I think Jarvis has to go in there somewhere (maybe replacing Mike Brown?)

 

Holup, Shawnta and Brown are undeniably on there.

Pops and Yinka are interesting because they were the faces of teams that had other guys who were the glue guys. Hard to say that the Sweet 16 happens without Brigham transferring over, and without Kwame, Sonni, or Dirkk in particular. Yinka was obviously the lottery pick, but I think his inauspicious Nets career shows that he was drafted as much for potential as it was talent.

For Pops, I'd say Scott Van Pelt (and his own charisma on campus) made him the face of the program, but Carl Elliott won two A-10 Championships and carried the team to its third NCAA Tournament. He has the program's only triple-double. Mike Hall was about as much a glue guy as you could ever hope for.

As far as coaches go, telling the story of GW Basketball requires Jarvis, but telling the story about GW's role in the history of basketball has to include Bill Reinhart, who taught Red Auerbach the fastbreaking offense that helped turn the Celtics into the juggernaut they were.
 

Everyone's criteria are obviously subjective.  For me, I have to put the most complete players ahead of the most transformative.  For that reason, Yinka does not make my top 5.  He likely belongs on a GW Basketball Mount Rushmore since he was the face of the program at the time that the school began its run of NCAA appearances during the 1990's.  Nevertheless, his offensive game was way too raw, and his heart condition did limit his playing time.  (You may not recall but Yinka would rarely play for more than 4 game minutes at a time without being taken out of the game.  He would often come back in the following whistle.  Have wondered what the Nets may or may not have known about this prior to drafting him.)   

For similar reasons, I can't consider Pops in my Top 5.  He was a thrilling player and certainly the school's best-known player while he was at GW.  Again, the polish on his offensive game wasn't exceptional despite notable improvement through the years.

I normally don't like to select guys before my time but Joe Holup's numbers seem to demand inclusion. Others may belong but I'll refrain from including them since I simply don't know.   Shawnta is a no-brainer.  Chris Monroe is not only the school's scoring leader despite playing 29.5 games per season on average, but was also a tenacious rebounder for a 6' 3" guard averaging 6 boards per game over 4 years.  Mike Brown was the model of consistency on teams that would have been horrific without his presence.  He played well before 6"10" players were routinely taking 3 point shots.  He had an exceptional touch from 15 feet or so.  Brownie's long NBA career likely does not hurt when including him on my team.  This leaves one spot open and it would be criminal not to include anyone from the 2004-07 teams.  Rice was the most explosive, JR was (IMO) the best two-way player in the backcourt, and Carl (who I realize I just snubbed) was the consummate winner.  I am drawn to Mike Hall as my choice because his game was flawless if not exceptional.  He gave his teams whatever they needed at just the right time, again and again.  He shot well, rebounded well, passed well, took care of the ball well, and his defense was probably ahead of his offense.  So I'll go with a pair of Mike's (Brown, Hall), Holup, Monroe and Shawnta.  

jf wrote:

This talk of Mike Hall, who deserves every accolade mentioned, gives me another thought.
What about Yegor? He would have had a shot in the NBA if came along some years later when they
turned to European players.
  Like Mike Hall, Yegor did everything well and was a glue guy.
Though we had more glue guys back then.

Given our different vantage points of who we've actually seen in person, this is a near impossible task. Always leaned toward Pat Tallent as one of the most overlooked players in GW history. Your mention of Yegor Mescheriakov tweaked my memory and he actually may be more forgotten and overlooked than the baby Tallent brother.
 

Lot of recency bias here, which is to be expected. Glad someone mentioned Jon Feldman, three-time Small All American who went for 42 against WVU and Jerry West. Also, Bob Faris, the first GW All-American (but not a great AD).

And love Bob Tallent, who would have averaged > 30 with the 3-point shot. Likewise love Walt S., who held his own against Dr. J (at MSG) and Artis Gilmore in Walt's senior year.