When I saw the thread name, I thought this was one of those fluffy offseason threads we have to keep us interested.  And it is to some extent. 

But it’s also a sneaky great assessment of our program.  To be speaking about our depth, our scoring capabilities, our stature within the A-10, and even nationally…this is the kind of discussion we all aspire to be having regularly, instead of how Gonzaga did it the right way and so can we (when the world of college basketball is unrecognizable from 20 years ago — let alone three years ago). 

So, I think this is a great thread. 

On paper, GW should be a top 4 A-10 team this season, with a legit shot at a double bye.  We could sneak in to the NCAA and win a 12-5 game before losing to, well, Gonzaga (of course).  And the joy and happiness in the program could lead to everybody coming back and us having some sustained success. 

Or, we also might never find enough minutes to keep everyone happy.   We might find ourselves hopelessly underachieving and battling to avoid the pillow fight.   And the players all leave for greener paydays (I mean pastures). 


But it’s only early-June.  We have months before the season begins and prior to anything real becoming apparent.  So today I am the optimist. 

I vote double-bye, 12 conference wins, and the A10 semis at worst.

And as for Gonzaga, if we lose to Dude’s other favorite team (and they are very worthy of respect), then I will consider the season a ridiculous and rousing success.

I'm going with 8, primarily because the hype is justified.  Most of the weaknesses of recent years are being remedied, namely coaching instability and lack of talent and depth.  It wasn't long ago that dressing 7 was an accomplishment.  Transfers in were mostly unknown entities playing with ball dominant stars.

In contrast, we now have continuity with Coach C and have managed to poach the leading scorers off of 3 teams.  As opposed to Benny, Dayan, and Gerald, we know very well what Dinkins, Aranguren, and Benjamin have done (although Bubu has to flip his assist/turnover ratio lol.) And Marshall has experience and some notable games under his belt.

Competition for minutes is a good thing as well as having great practices with a full complement.  Being deep at guard allows picking up full court and controlling pace along with backups for rolled ankles.

All the while we know how transient things can be in this day and age and I for one am ready for a great and promising season.  Bring it on!

Actually I am almost always a big optimist in the pre-season, mainly because I just remember the good about the returning players and not the bad.   Of course the flip side is after a surprisingly strong conference season during CC's first year, I was really pumped for the second year, especially when Bishop announced he was staying. only to finish dead last the next season)  Generally it isn't until we struggle in that first game vs. Hampton or Maryland ES that my mood turns sour.  In all, I am fairly optimistic right now based upon what is being written about the portal transfers even though admittedly, just by the numbers, I am not sure why they are getting rave reviews.   But  overall, I think the hype is very good for a program that has had so little positive buzz about it since the NIT.  

I'm probably a less than 5 Gwmayhem. As you can imagine, I think pre-season hype doesn't win any games. I guess it's better to have something to talk about for the fans than not but I can assure you that CC will not have his team buying into the hype. Almost every coach knows that is a recipe for disaster.

As far as whether the hype is warranted, in this era, I am not sure. Transfer classes are more than just accumulating talent. You have to meld these guys with the returners into a cohesive group. That's not always easy to do in one offseason. Each of these guys comes from a different program (or multiple programs) which all have different cultures and schemes. So while on paper it looks like we are deeper/more talented, the proof will be in the pudding. I don't envy coaches today because there are many moving parts.

Maybe it's the coach in me, but I'd much rather have no hype, sneak up on folks and get that post-season hype which means we accomplished something.

Last edited by GWRising (6/03/2025 9:50 am)

Speaking as a fan, hype is a great thing! I talk myself into the team placing above expectations every year anyway, so it is a lot more fun when that hype means I'm dreaming about March instead of 5th place in the Atlantic 10. While I understand that real expectations carry real pressure with them, hope is a good thing, and I'm more than happy to be along for a ride that has a real path to success. Yeah it might blow up in our face, but for the first time in almost a decade this program is on a trajectory that can lead to both A10 and national relevance. That is something to celebrate, not shy away from the risk of.

From an administration and coaching perspective, I understand the worry about guys letting the hype get to their heads and negatively impacting the on-court product. However, whether that will happen is unknowable until the season starts, so I'll worry about that when/if we're forced to deal with it. 

With all that said, I'm around an 8 or 9. I trust this coaching staff to get results from what is an experienced and expensive roster. We have all the resources, on paper, to compete for a double-bye, and if we were to hypothetically beat a good SEC team on a neutral court they might start throwing numbers next to GW's name.

Gwmayhem - harder to do in this era of hype media and social media. Once the hype begins it is really hard to insulate your players from it. And once exposed, it is really hard to get them to stop reading their press clippings. What did John Wooden say about getting caught up in praise?

As for GW these are exciting but dangerous times. The expectations are higher with this team. Personally, I believe it will go one of two ways. We will either be a NCAA candidate or NIT/Crown again. I don't see us as a 16-16 team or anything less barring several catastrophic injuries. To be honest, not  making the NCAA tournament cannot reasonably be looked at as a disappointment given the paucity of A-10 NCAA bids. It is entirely possible that we could be better and still end up in the same spot.

But the difference between the two finishes may well be how well GW handles the expectations/hype, especially early in the season.

I honestly don't see any downside to the hype. The best programs in the country (Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Gonzaga) deal with significantly more hype (i.e., being ranked, national press coverage) every year than we will ever get. If Duke doesn't make it to a Final Four, their season is considered a failure. Gonzaga, despite being in a mid-major conference, is now expected to make the Sweet 16 every year. And yet every HS player in the country wants to go to these schools. If the 2024-25 GW squad doesn't end up having a good season, I will be 100% convinced that it will be because we were not good enough (i.e., the hype was unwarranted) rather than because our players noticed the hype, got big heads, and decided they didn't need to practice and play hard. As for what constitutes a good season, for me it's a top 4 finish in conference and/or a deep run in the conference tournament. If we manage that, I will not be disappointed if we don't go to the NCAAs, due to the gradual disappearance of at large bids for mid-majors noted by many posters here.

Gwmayhem wrote:

DC Native, how would we truly know if a disappointing season would be the result of the players not being good enough as opposed to the hype getting in the way?  That will always boil down to one's interpretation.

The comparisons to the best programs in the country are practically apples to oranges.  Superior talent wins out far more often than it doesn't.  When your talent is at or near championship caliber, preseason hype is essentially a nonfactor.  I'd contend that hype matters far more to programs whose seasons can often go either way, from year to year.

Good post Rising.  I fully agree with you on these points.

So what you are saying is that the most talented players in the country are immune from the highest of expectations, but players that are not quite as talented have egos so fragile that they might crumble under the pressure of being ranked by a computer as the 56th best team in the country and the second best team in the A10. That makes no sense to me, but to each their own opinion!

Last edited by DC Native (6/04/2025 4:23 pm)

Gwmayhem wrote:

DC Native wrote:

Gwmayhem wrote:

DC Native, how would we truly know if a disappointing season would be the result of the players not being good enough as opposed to the hype getting in the way?  That will always boil down to one's interpretation.

The comparisons to the best programs in the country are practically apples to oranges.  Superior talent wins out far more often than it doesn't.  When your talent is at or near championship caliber, preseason hype is essentially a nonfactor.  I'd contend that hype matters far more to programs whose seasons can often go either way, from year to year.


Good post Rising.  I fully agree with you on these points.

So what you are saying is that the most talented players in the country are immune from the highest of expectations, but players that are not quite as talented have egos so fragile that they might crumble under the pressure of being ranked by a computer as the 56th best team in the country and the second best team in the A10. That makes no sense to me, but to each their own opinion!

That's not what I am saying at all.  What I am saying is the top programs in the country recruit the best players.  The players trust that coaches like Jon Scheyer and Kelvin Sampson will correctly identify who these players are.  These programs are immune from hype as they already carry the expectation of being among the country's best.  Compare this to GW whose preseason forecasts may vary from "last place finish in the A10" to what's being experienced this off season.  

Putting this into context, when Duke is forecast to be among the best in the country, that's just another day for them.  When GW (these days) is forecast as perhaps being the second best team in the A10, it's far more noteworthy.  And, it's something that the players are not at all used to.

 

Agreed. When you play for blue blood, the expectations are present every year and you have already played with hype because you are undoubtedly one of the best HS or college players in the country. You wouldn't be able to go to one of those schools if you weren't used to hype/expectations. Win or lose there is a huge media following dissecting every game and every play.

When a mid major program is rising and you are getting more press than usual that is not something most of those players are prepared for or used to. Some will have never experienced it and others may not yet be used to it.

That's not to say things can't change over time but initially there is a difference for sure.
 

Last edited by GWRising (Yesterday 9:43 am)

I also feel like what it means to have hype at a program like GW has changed. When a team like Richmond or St. Bonaventure that was bringing back their main core a few years ago as upperclassmen I think there was way more pressure on them to perform as they had been together for years compared to a team being picked at the top now (and I say that even with GW bringing six players back from last year). The portal has changed a lot, and I'm not sure how connected players are to a program/school like that anymore. For the most part, CC has done an outstanding job targeting players who are not only loyal but compete for the right reasons. Having said that, there is still a feeling that incoming transfer players have no understanding about what has happened in the seasons before apart from just looking up how GW fared. Previously, these players would be more immersed in the culture having to sit out a year.

Predicting who will finish on top has never been harder. I've seen VCU and GMU get picked towards the top on some early lists despite both teams having a ton of turnover (although there is probably hype every year at a school like VCU). Yeah there may be pressure of "always being picked towards the top" but the stakes feel less, at least to me. The preseason rankings have never really meant much, but in this era it's never been less meaningful which should theoretically make it easier for a team to dismiss it (although still fun to see as a fan when picked highly of course). Nowadays, it feels like every year has a certain degree of hype without true rebuilding years (although on slightly different tiers depending on team composition) and given that the A10 is trending towards having to win the conference tournament to make the big dance underperforming feels like less of a disappointment compared to before (more of a luck component with getting hot at the right time).